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Age of the Federation....

Following Trek continuity as estanlished in the later series the Federation is said to have been established sometime mid 22nd century in the early 2160s. But if you go strictly by TOS there is a subtext that seems to imply the Federation isn't that old and might be no more than a few decades at that point.

Onscreen reference to the United Federation of Planets doesn't arise until the latter part of the first season in episodes such as "A Taste Of Armageddon" and "Errand Of Mercy." Prior to that the political authority of the Enterprise is quite vague. There is nothing prior to say there isn't a Federation yet there is nothing definite to say there is either. From the latter part of the first season onward the UFP, along with Starfleet, is firmly established.

In "Balance Of Terror" there is repeated reference to the Earth/Romulan war set a century prior. At this point in the series the Federation doesn't appear to be even an idea as it is something worked out later. But fans have somewhat retconned the (unintended) implication that the war with the Romulans was indeed with Earth (and its allies) and predates the Federation. And this idea has long been accepted in onscreen continuity.

But flash forward to TOS' third season and the subtext seems to get some support, particularly in the episode "Whom Gods Destroy." At that point Kirk makes reference to the Axanar Peace Mission and that it was a dream of statesmen that became a reality and made Kirk and Spock brothers (figuratively speaking). To me that could suggest the Federation was founded even within Kirk's liftetime at the time when he was a newly pledged cadet. That would make the Federation barely twenty years old at that point.

In some of the earlier novels the writers seem to pick up on this subtext because the impression seems to be the Federation was established sometime within the early part of the 23rd century--which would place it within only a few decades of TOS.

Given in the early part of TOS we were hearing references to the United Earth Space Probe Agency, Earth Central, Space Central and the like, yes, we could easily dismiss it as the series not yet having everything fleshed out yet. Or perhaps those are references that could support the idea the Federation was still relatively new.


Thoughts anyone?
Your great analogy was enough for me not to watch Enterprise again. Was never necessary and was a waste of time to create. Within those 20 years before Kirk, how cool it would've been to have a real prequel series involving Robert April and his tenure with the then new Starship Enterprise? Sigh. There are a ton of ideas which could spring off from those TOS episodes.
 
Before TMP it was common to accept the dating referenced in "Space Seed" that TOS' 5-year mission happened some 200 years afrer the 1990s or so. TMP threw a wrench into that by referencing the launch of the Voyager probes being 300 years past. And thats what we've basically gone with since. And it sorta works because it simply allows for more time for things to happen. Otherwise we'd be assuming an Earth/Romulan war sometime in the 21st century.

A lot of this future history was easier to accept back in the 1960s/'70s when the 21st century was still decades in the future. Now into our second decade into the 21st century the idea of humanity even getting out of the solar system in the foreseeable future seems remote.

When "Balance Of Terror" was aired there was mention of Earth and its allies in the war, but no specific reference that Vulcan was one of those allies. James Blish's adaptation of the episode makes reference to the Vulcans being known by Earth, but that isn't in the aired episode. It isn't until 2nd season's "Metamorphosis" where Cochrane recognizes Spock as a Vulcan that we learn Earth had contact with the Vulcans before the Earth/Romulan War by at least fifty years.

The idea of Vulcan, Andor and Teller beings founding members of the Federation alongside Earth is not established in TOS, but an idea born from fandom. I don't know if that was clarified in any of the later series or we are all still assuming this after fifty years.

The idea of the Earth/Romulan War being the impetus leading to the founding of the Federation might have come from some drawing parallels with the United Nations being founded sometime after WW2.
 
Several states in the United States are very state centric. For example, one could be a Virginian or say a Texan first, an American second. Something like that. It seems more so for some states than others, and varies depending on just how long a family has lived in that state.
Yes, but there's a Federal United States army and navy, whereas the UN only uses member nations' forces under their auspices under certain circumstances. I think the UESPA references can be made to fit if you accept at this point the that Enterprise was still an Earth ship, albeit one given Federation missions from Starfleet as well as Earth missions from UESPA. The former eventually eclipsed the latter, and Starfleet became the de facto coordinating body for all member planets' scientific and military fleets. This probably occurs during TOS actually.
 
Seemed to me the Federation was supposed to be the UN, not the USA.

TOS never really defined what the Federation was. Later movies and series did treat it as something closer to the US than the UN, since it had a president and such.

The references to "Earth Starfleet" and whatnot make sense if you assume each planet is still more or less maintaining their own fleet.

There has never been an onscreen use of the phrase "Earth Starfleet." (The only two times those words appear consecutively are with a comma between them.) The term "United Earth Starfleet" is used on Memory Alpha to refer to the Starfleet depicted in Enterprise, which predates the founding of the Federation. Presumably Earth Starfleet and the other founder worlds' space services were folded into the Federation Starfleet after 2161 (and I've explored the early stages of that integration in my Rise of the Federation novels).


Before TMP it was common to accept the dating referenced in "Space Seed" that TOS' 5-year mission happened some 200 years afrer the 1990s or so. TMP threw a wrench into that by referencing the launch of the Voyager probes being 300 years past. And thats what we've basically gone with since.

There was also "Metamorphosis," which established that Cochrane had vanished 150 years before at age 85. Since most scientists and inventors make their greatest achievements at a relatively early age, it follows that warp drive was probably invented close to 200 years before TOS, which makes the date references in "Space Seed" and "Tomorrow is Yesterday" a bit iffy. The production staff seemed to have settled on the 23rd century as the time frame by season 2, because that century was specified in The Making of Star Trek. Note, by the way, that the first work that mentioned a 23rd-century time frame for the series was James Blish's adaptation of "Space Seed," which predated TMoST's release by several months. That's despite the adaptation using the "200 years" dialogue from the episode.

And you're oversimplifying a bit. For decades, there were two conflicting schools of thought on when TOS took place. There was the Spaceflight Chronology model where TOS took place in the first decade of the 23rd century, which was an attempt to reconcile the 23rd-century references in the movies with the 200-years references in season 1. And there was an alternative model that put TOS exactly 300 years after its airdate, in the 2260s. There were fans and authors who favored both models, and it wasn't until TNG's "The Neutral Zone" explicitly pegged the calendar date as 2364 that the question was resolved (because we knew TNG was about a century after TOS, and that McCoy was only 137 as of TNG). I was actually a proponent of the earlier timeframe myself at the time, and I had to rework my entire chronology once "The Neutral Zone" aired.

A lot of this future history was easier to accept back in the 1960s/'70s when the 21st century was still decades in the future. Now into our second decade into the 21st century the idea of humanity even getting out of the solar system in the foreseeable future seems remote.

Well, according to "Space Seed," we're going to stop using interplanetary sleeper ships two years from now, when faster means of interplanetary travel are developed...

The idea of Vulcan, Andor and Teller beings founding members of the Federation alongside Earth is not established in TOS, but an idea born from fandom. I don't know if that was clarified in any of the later series or we are all still assuming this after fifty years.

Temporal Agent Daniels confirmed in Enterprise: "Zero Hour" that the signers of the Federation Charter in 2161 would include humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites. So it is canonical now.

To be specific, Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual established the founding members of the Federation as governments based at Earth, Alpha Centauri, 40 Eridani, Epsilon Indi, and 61 Cygni. But they were all treated therein as implicitly human civilizations (judging from their flags and symbols) with the exception of 40 Eri, which James Blish had identified as Vulcan's home star years earlier in his "Tomorrow is Yesterday" adaptation. Later, the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual by Geoffrey Mandel, Doug Drexler, Anthony Fredericksen, et al. identified the Andorians as being from Epsilon Indi and the Tellarites from 61 Cygni, which as far as I know was the source of the idea that they were founding members. It was unofficial fan lore until ENT canonized it.


I think the UESPA references can be made to fit if you accept at this point the that Enterprise was still an Earth ship, albeit one given Federation missions from Starfleet as well as Earth missions from UESPA. The former eventually eclipsed the latter, and Starfleet became the de facto coordinating body for all member planets' scientific and military fleets. This probably occurs during TOS actually.

There's a logo in ENT: "Demons" that identifies the pre-Federation Starfleet Command as an aspect of UESPA (or vice versa). The interpretation I've gone with in my novels is that the UFP Starfleet is a union of UESPA, the Andorian Guard, and the other founders' space agencies, similarly to how the European Space Agency is an alliance of the EU member nations' respective space agencies, with some taking a more direct role in spaceflight and others just providing funding or research assistance or the like. In my books, UESPA mainly handles exploration, the Andorian Guard focuses on defense, the Vulcan Space Service is research-focused, the Tellarite space agency is basically the merchant marine, etc. I figure that over time, the distinct space agencies become absorbed into a more unified Starfleet, but that they remain as administrative divisions rather than distinct national entities -- so the Enterprise is under UESPA because it's mainly an explorer, say. But these subdivisions were phased out by the time TMP came along.
 
This is quite an interesting thread. I too think that "Whom Gods Destroy" points to some recent formation probably meant to be the Federation. The dialogue definitely point to some grand unification.

KIRK: Very well. But my first visit to Axanar was as a new fledged cadet on a peace mission.
GARTH: Peace mission! Politicians and weaklings!
KIRK: They were humanitarians and statesmen, and they had a dream. A dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars, a dream that made Mister Spock and me brothers.


However, since other Trek references point to a much earlier founding of the Federation i have my own interpretation. That is that Axanar was the decisive victory in a Federation civil war. I think a civil war would be a much more interesting idea than the often touted Four Years War with the Klingons. Perhaps the Federation was much more a loose confederation before this and this Civil War made the Federation into more of a "THE United States" rather than "THESE United States."
 
However, since other Trek references point to a much earlier founding of the Federation i have my own interpretation. That is that Axanar was the decisive victory in a Federation civil war. I think a civil war would be a much more interesting idea than the often touted Four Years War with the Klingons. Perhaps the Federation was much more a loose confederation before this and this Civil War made the Federation into more of a "THE United States" rather than "THESE United States."

I got the impression from the "Axanar" preview scene with Soval that Vulcan was on the verge of leaving the Federation due to the Four Year's War with the Klingons. If the decisions being made in this war resulted in one of the founding Federation members to secede, then that would have been a devastating blow. While not canon, I like this idea for Axanar. It was one I never thought of before.
 
Yes, but there's a Federal United States army and navy, whereas the UN only uses member nations' forces under their auspices under certain circumstances. I think the UESPA references can be made to fit if you accept at this point the that Enterprise was still an Earth ship, albeit one given Federation missions from Starfleet as well as Earth missions from UESPA. The former eventually eclipsed the latter, and Starfleet became the de facto coordinating body for all member planets' scientific and military fleets. This probably occurs during TOS actually.


Up until about hundred years ago, there were state militia that also included naval forces. Find a Jane's Fighting Ships from 1914. Near the end of the section on the United States you will find US Naval Militia, just before the section on US Revenue Cutter Service. In mine, he Militia takes four pages for all the states. Most have only one or two ships with New York having four. A few operate monitors built around 1900 armed with battleship guns. Other operate older cruisers. Most operate a destroyer or sloop or yacht-like ship.

These have since been rolled up into the National Guard.
 
That's the current idea, but Warped9's point is that it has no precedent in TOS itself. The idea of the Federation hadn't even been conceived yet when "Balance of Terror" was written. So since it was called "the Earth-Romulan War," people concluded later on that it must've been before the Federation was founded, and that led to the idea that the Federation was founded right after the war. TNG established that the Federation was founded in 2161, and the Star Trek Chronology conjectured that the Earth-Romulan War immediately preceded it. And ENT established that the war hadn't begun yet as of 2155. So that narrows it down to sometime between those two years, in keeping with the Chronology's speculative dating of 2156-60 for the war.



Except it couldn't be that simple. If the Federation were simply a military alliance growing out of war, how did it end up becoming such a peaceful, benevolent civilization? That was the focus of my first Rise of the Federation novel, as indicated by its title A Choice of Futures.

I don't really count Enterprise in my Trek collection so I'll stick with the TNG dates, Chris!
JB
 
KIRK: Very well. But my first visit to Axanar was as a new fledged cadet on a peace mission.
GARTH: Peace mission! Politicians and weaklings!
KIRK: They were humanitarians and statesmen, and they had a dream. A dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars, a dream that made Mister Spock and me brothers.

As a random aside, Kirk here might be speaking generally of "politicians and weaklings", and of their "peace missions", rather than of Axanar specifically. That is, he takes immediate offense in Garth's words and says that politicians in general are not weaklings but humanitarians and statesmen, and that political dreams in general are a good thing - why, one of them made Spock and him brothers!

There's a logo in ENT: "Demons" that identifies the pre-Federation Starfleet Command as an aspect of UESPA (or vice versa).

Or even both representing a joint operation, the way a similar patch of an Apollo mission may list the names of three equal partners.

Would there be "heraldic" rules about that? About which one goes atop, boss or subordinate, I mean? Okuda once did a patch with "SF Command" above and "UFP" below, say, but that didn't make it on screen.

Timo Saloniemi
 
When's the first moment anyone says "Federation "? Not counting First Federation... Anyway, as vague as they were early on, doesn't it seem they must have has something like the Federation vaguely in mind? I mean, Spock's presence, and at such a high rank, implies this. They may have avoided naming their big EU in space (more that than a US), but they avoided directly saying they represented Earth too.

The only time I'm tempted to think the Federation was recent was when in The Cage whoever says the time barrier's been broken, as if warp travel is recent.
 
When's the first moment anyone says "Federation "? Not counting First Federation...

It debuted in "Arena." "The Enterprise is the only protection in this section of the Federation. Destroy the Enterprise and everything is wide open." The full name "United Federation of Planets" debuted in "A Taste of Armageddon." It was then referenced again in "The Devil in the Dark" (briefly) and "Errand of Mercy." The first time it was used in a script that wasn't credited to Gene L. Coon was in "Operation -- Annihilate!"

Anyway, as vague as they were early on, doesn't it seem they must have has something like the Federation vaguely in mind? I mean, Spock's presence, and at such a high rank, implies this. They may have avoided naming their big EU in space (more that than a US), but they avoided directly saying they represented Earth too.

On the contrary, they repeatedly identified the Enterprise as an Earth ship in season 1. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" had Kirk refer to the Valiant as "another Earth ship." "The Corbomite Maneuver" had him identify his vessel as "the United Earth Ship Enterprise." and call it an Earth ship more than once. The E was called an Earth ship in the frame of "The Menagerie," and in "A Taste of Armageddon," even though that one also named the Federation. "Tomorrow is Yesterday" said the Enterprise was under the authority of the United Earth Space Probe Agency. And they were constantly visiting Earth outposts and Earth colonies. Vulcan isn't established as an actual member of the UFP until "Errand of Mercy." Before then, Spock came off more like a lone alien immigrant within an Earth-based civilization. (Think of Worf, who became a Starfleet commander without his homeworld being a Federation member.)

Indeed, I realized something not too long ago. In the 19th century, Vulcan was the conjectural name for an undiscovered planet between the Sun and Mercury, proposed to explain gravitational anomalies that were later explained by Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. The scientific proposal was debunked by the early 20th century, but the idea of a Solar planet called Vulcan endured in science fiction for decades. So I wonder if Spock was originally meant to come from that Vulcan, to be a native of the Solar System and a neighbor -- perhaps even a colonial subject -- of Earth humans. (After all, in the original proposal, he was suggested to be "half-Martian." And his Vulcan is a hot planet, suggesting a world close to its star.) It isn't really until "Amok Time" that Vulcan is established as being in a distinct star system, although "Tomorrow is Yesterday" can be taken to imply it by omission.
 
Doctor Who had a planet called Vulcan back in 1966 too but it was called earth colony Vulcan and according to the Radio Times of that week the story was set in the year 2020 so we have only four more years to get there before we become a separate reality! :wah:
JB
 
I always thought that in Tomorrow is yesterday that Kirk spoke of the UESPA rather than reveal the existence of The Federation to Captain Christopher while he was on the ship!
JB
 
Considering how much GR was influenced by Forbidden Planet it's possible that some sort of Federation or alliance of some form was in the back of his mind even though early on there are no refrences to it.

It's easy to rationlize some references to "Earth ship" (singular or plural) as throwaay references in similar vein as people always do in conversation where they are not being consciously specific. It's a little different when it's referenced in an official ship's log where the recorder should be making an effort to be precise. Even so it's not impossible for a ship to send a message directly to an agency on Earth rather to Starfleet via the nearest starbase. And when Kirk states their immediate authority is UESPA he could have been being vague or cagey to avoid giving too much away. At that point Kirk and the rest are just starting to grasp the real predicament they're in and could still make unwitting mistakes. UESPA might be an agency that comes into being within Christpher's lifetime and Kirk mighn't recall exactly when it was established. Ideally Kirk shouldn't have said anything in response to Christopher's assumptions beyond stating they were a combined service and let Christopher wonder.

Early on it's possible the Enterprise encountered ships from Earth rather than ones representing the Federation and those are the stories we see. It's not impossible to rationalize/assume the Federation exists at that point and even as far back as "The Cage" era even though, again, specific references are made to Earth.
 
You don't have to count other productions that followed TOS. That is actually part of the point of the discussion. We already know what has been established throughout the subsequent productions. The question is basically trying to derive whether what seems to be being said in TOS gives us a clue to the Federation's age and how it might/might not conflict with what was established later.

Christopher cited references in TAS and if one includes that as an extension of TOS then it does argue for the Federation existing about a century prior to TOS.
 
It debuted in "Arena." "The Enterprise is the only protection in this section of the Federation. Destroy the Enterprise and everything is wide open."

Thanks. Is that also instance #1 in production order?

Amazing how we can so easily superimpose The Federation onto all these stories , not realizing we're doing it. One reason is that to call something an earth ship is not to say it isn't a Federation ship. Also, my viewing started with Squire of Gothos, so my first time with the earliest ep's was in summer reruns, when I knew about the Feds.
 
Amazing how we can so easily superimpose The Federation onto all these stories , not realizing we're doing it. One reason is that to call something an earth ship is not to say it isn't a Federation ship.
Good point.

To identify something as an Earth ship might simply mean it is recognizable as something of predominantly human design as opposed to Vulcan or Andorian or whatever.
 
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