Age of kirk and spock

[Claudia]

I thought, too, that Spock and Kirk were meant to be roughly the same age - Kirk entered the academy 4 years later than he should have, Spock at 18 --> Spock's already graduated and advanced to commander by the time they're both 25.

I remember in "The Enterprise Incident" Spock said he served in Starfleet for 18 years. Assuming he was 21 when he was commissioned that would make him 39, and 40 if he was 22.

Why assume his "served in SF" so late? I thought he meant he was with SF for 18 years, including the academy. Presuming the normal course takes 4 years, Spock's 36 by the time of "Enterprise Incident" which would also make him roughly the same age as Kirk in Prime Universe.

 

[Jbarney]

This may not be entirely corrrect but here goes.....

1. Spock was born in 2230 (I believe) and this happens prior to Nero's arrival in 2233.

2. Kirk was born in 2233. In the prime timeline the Kelvin got back to Earth and then Kirk was born. In the new timeline the Kelvin is ordered to investigate the lightning storm in space and Kirk is born as depicted in the film.

3. I believe Spock kicking the ass out of those other Vulcan kids happens when he is 11, making that 2241.

4. Kirk taking the car is when he is 11 putting that section in 2244

5. Spock rejecting the Vulcan Science Academy happens prior to his entrance into starfleet, which is not concrete in the new timeline, probably when he is 17 or 18...making it 2247 or 2248

6. Kirk telling Pike he will finish Star Fleet in 3 years happens three years prior than most of the film...so 2255

7. Rest of the film happens in 2258

Think I got this right.

 

[Sanae]

^
This sounds just about right, methinks. Also because if Spock joined the Academy in 2248, he would have graduated in 2252 giving him 6 full years of active service, which would have given him plenty of time to become a commander as well as having the last four years to be in charge of programming the Kobayashi Maru.

 

[Claudia]

But why show the stealing car Kirk *before* Spock's altercation with the other kids when the latter happened 3 years prior to the car incident? Doesn't make much sense IMO.

Also, Spock's already a computer genius by the time he enters Starfleet - and since we know that cadets can have an official rank (Uhura - lt., Chekov - Ensign) who's to say that it took Spock 6 years to make the rank of commander (especially when Pike says to Kirk that he could be a captain 4 years after graduation - never mind that he then gets command of the Enterprise practically instantaneously)? He could have been charged with programming the KM-test in his final year at the academy etc.

 

[Jbarney]

Maybe the two scenes from childhood go together in the same year....I'm not really sure.

But as far as Spock's age prior to entering the Acadamy that is just a guess on my part. I thought the film did say that when Kirk beat the Kobyashi Maru Test in 2258 that Spock had been programming the test for 3 or 4 years. Can anyone verify this?

In the old time line Spock was born in 2230. His age never changed as it happens before the arrival of Nero.

 

[Nebula1400]

In TOS, Kirk said he was 34-years-old in the episode "The Deadly Years" which first aired in Dec. 1967 (the second season).

In "Journey to Babel," which aired in Nov. 1967, Amanda said that Spock's decision to join Starfleet created a rift between Spock and Sarek that has lasted for 17 years. I don't recall if it was in this episode or another, but Spock had joined Starfleet at 18 years old, which would have made him 35 in the second season.

 

[Jeri]

Where does it say Spock joined Starfleet at 18 -- does someone know?

 

[Claudia]

But as far as Spock's age prior to entering the Acadamy that is just a guess on my part. I thought the film did say that when Kirk beat the Kobyashi Maru Test in 2258 that Spock had been programming the test for 3 or 4 years. Can anyone verify this?

Yes, it does say that Spock programmed the KM test for the last 4 years - which doesn't necessarily mean that Spock must have graduated already by the time he programmed it for the first time.

In the old time line Spock was born in 2230. His age never changed as it happens before the arrival of Nero.

2230? Is there a canon confirmation for that year? As indicated before, I always thought of Spock and Kirk being of the same age - meaning both were born in 2233. But, of course, if Spock's birthyear was mentioned somewhere I'd love to know!

 

[Sanae]

I'm not sure how reliable this website is: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Spock

But it does say that his birth year was 2232 and that he was commissioned as a Starfleet officer in the early 2250s, considering this, it's not so far-fetched to think that he was around 17-18 years old when he joined.

It makes it even more believable if we think he graduated around 2254, giving him the four years in between to make it to comander and program the Kobayashi Maru. After all, for all we know, maybe he was almost on his way to get his own ship when he met Kirk.

Seeing that Spock accuses Kirk of not having experience in space (other than the moment when he was born and transported to Earth), I assume Spock isn't in his first post onboard a ship when he gets picked by Pike to be his XO.

Also, about Dr McCoy and Scotty, their birthdates are something like 2227 for the first and 2222 for the second and, like with Spock, this happened before Nero disrupted the TOS timeline so, their ages should be the same, right?

 

[Franklin]

Memory Alpha has 2232 as Spock's birth. I'll bet it's based mostly on the supposition that Kirk and Spock are supposed to be about the same age, and for what it's worth, it's also based a bit on Shatner and Nimoy being exactly the same age. Of course, Kirk was played as two years younger than Shatner really was. (Shatner was 36 when "The Deadly Years" was filmed.)
I don't think any of the TOS characters' birthdates are mentioned on screen until 2233 is specifically mentioned in ST09. The only TOS characters whose ages we know for sure are Kirk's and Chekov's, because they actually said them on screen. Most of the other ages are extrapolated from the actual age of the actor, which is just speculation and a bit dangerous, of course. Heck, Koenig was 31 when Chekov gave his age.

 

[Jbarney]

Sorry, nothing canon....just using Okuda and the Star Trek Chronology.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Claudia,

Why assume his "served in SF" so late? I thought he meant he was with SF for 18 years, including the academy. Presuming the normal course takes 4 years, Spock's 36 by the time of "Enterprise Incident" which would also make him roughly the same age as Kirk in Prime Universe.

Well from what I know about the military, an officer usually only counts their years of service since they've been commissioned...


Nebula1400,

In "Journey to Babel," which aired in Nov. 1967, Amanda said that Spock's decision to join Starfleet created a rift between Spock and Sarek that has lasted for 17 years. I don't recall if it was in this episode or another, but Spock had joined Starfleet at 18 years old, which would have made him 35 in the second season.

Which came first "Enterprise Incident" or "Journey to Babel"?


CuttingEdge100

 

[Franklin]

As far as speculation goes, let's try it this way:
-- Jane Wyatt (Amanda) was 57 when JB aired in 1967. We know Kirk was 34 from another 1967 episode, so the year is 2367. If Wyatt was playing her age, Amanda was born in 2310.
-- So, Amanda was 48 when she died in ST09 (2358).
-- Based on that, I would guess Spock was in his mid-twenties in the movie. Probably no more than 26, which is a birth year of 2332. Any older than that, and Amanda would've been pretty young when she became a mother.

Of course, Wyatt could've been playing Amanda to be a few years older than her real age. So, unless Amanda was quite a bit older when Spock was born, Spock isn't yet 30 in the movie. That's probably as close as we can get, and that's not even based on 100 percent on screen evidence. It depends on Amanda being Wyatt's age or close to it.

 

[Nebula1400]

Where does it say Spock joined Starfleet at 18 -- does someone know?

Now I have to go back and watch all the old episodes of Star Trek. I know I got it from TOS.

 

[Jeri]

Yeah, I don't remember hearing that in the 40+ years I've been watching TOS.

Sources might have extrapolated from something, I guess.

 

[Nebula1400]

It might have been in the book "The Making of Star Trek," which contained just about everything we wanted to know about Star Trek, and contained the only canon info between the time TOS ended and the movies began. I no longer have it, but I'm trying to get ahold of a copy. With the renewed interest in TOS, it in an invaluable source.

 

[stoneagepunk]

Where does it say Spock joined Starfleet at 18 -- does someone know?

In D.C. Fontana's Vulcan's Glory it is said, that Spock is 16, when he joins Star Fleet Academy. After 3 years of studying - at the age of 19 - he serves two years on some small ship, after that, he joins Captain Daniels on the USS Artemis where he serves 3 years.
He is 24, when he joins Captain Pike on the Enterprise.

No idea about Kirk though.

 

[Jeri]

Where does it say Spock joined Starfleet at 18 -- does someone know?

In D.C. Fontana's Vulcan's Glory...

I was referring to Nebula's post, which mentioned TOS episodes. It needs to be said on screen. I don't think it ever was.

 

[stoneagepunk]

Where does it say Spock joined Starfleet at 18 -- does someone know?

In D.C. Fontana's Vulcan's Glory...

I was referring to Nebula's post, which mentioned TOS episodes. It needs to be said on screen.

I don't think it was ever mentioned on TOS, but that might be wrong.

But I think D.C. Fontana as one of the script writers can be regarded as a reliable source.

 

[Jeri]

No, I don't think it was. Nor the movies or other episodes.

Per your edit, in cases like that I usually conclude it is an answer, but not the answer. Ok for discussion, but...