I remember when Doctor Who did a novel about Salem, the author specifically did not want witches, aliens or anything supernatural involved in the story, wanting it to instead be about humanity's darker side.
Spoilers Agatha All Along discussion and spoilers.
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Of course also one difference is in the MCU you have the fact that witches are actually real unlike our world. The way to do it would be that most of the people killed in the Salem Witch Trials were in fact real witches but also still good people for the most part. Agatha being a exception.
According to the rules stated, I think in episode 2, the members of the coven just needed to be "witchy enough".
The TV series Salem put a twist on this by having it turn out the witches themselves were manipulating to witch trials as a way to take out their enemies.
Except those rules were meaningless, since the whole thing was Agatha's con to get her powers back.
Which is a horrific idea -- blaming the victims for the institution that persecuted and murdered them. I think I do remember hearing that show criticized for its unenlightened take on its subject matter.
Conversely, it turns out that Agatha was very authentic and respectful in its portrayal of Wiccan culture: https://reactormag.com/agatha-all-along-nailed-some-profound-truths-about-witchcraft/
My ego got a little boost by this point in the article, because I made a similar point a few pages back
And if they're rigging the elections why do they keep losing? (sorry sorry I had to vent *once*...)
One problem though is a bunch of sexist human men would be no match for real witches with real powers like would be the case in the MCU. The witches could easily manipulate them with spells and so forth. The only real threat to a witch would be another witch. Which I assume would be the point of covens. Strength in numbers.
Incidentally, I did a cursory search on real-life witch hunts. Witches were accused of things like making people sick from a distance or killing farm animals, or creating love potions, but most importantly, of being Satan's concubines. Nothing remotely similar to the superhero exploits you see in these fictions. Obviously they were not considered a real danger, because their "magic" was the result of long preparations and rituals and once captured they were harmless.
Humans are very good at finding the most bizarre justifications.
Worth highlighting that while misogyny clearly played a huge part in witch trials, it's by no stretch the only thing behind the phenomena. The majority of victims were women, but around a quarter of those executed were men, and geography played a part here, head into Eastern Europe and the numbers flip with three quarters of those executed men. Oft times those doing the accusing of women were, in fact, other women (but after events this week maybe we shouldn't be surprised at that).
To be clear, I'm not saying misogyny didn't play a huge part, maybe even the largest factor, even if only unconsciously--women perceived as inherently sinful etc-- but it is a mistake to imagine exerting power over women was always at the heart of this when it might just as easily have been a desire to rid yourself of a burdensome older relative, or because you coveted a neighbour's land. Misogyny just made it easier.
To be clear, I'm not saying misogyny didn't play a huge part, maybe even the largest factor, even if only unconsciously--women perceived as inherently sinful etc-- but it is a mistake to imagine exerting power over women was always at the heart of this when it might just as easily have been a desire to rid yourself of a burdensome older relative, or because you coveted a neighbour's land. Misogyny just made it easier.
It's intersectional. A systemic injustice directed against one group creates a mechanism that can be exploited to harm other groups, or even in some cases to allow members of the targeted group to gain advantage at the expense of others in the group. And there are plenty of people who don't even recognize the larger-scale injustice built into the system and are solely focused on their own immediate concerns and how to get ahead or get back at their rivals. That doesn't mean the root causes of the injustice aren't there. It just means that most individuals don't have the perspective to see how the system is stacked against them (as this week's events make clear).
Then there's the famous "First they came for the..." poem, whose point is that once those in power legitimize and codify intolerance against one group, it gives precedent and permission to embrace intolerance against other groups. Where it starts is not where it ends.
Still, you have a point that fear of witches and warlocks existed independently. It wasn't invented by misogynists, but it was embraced by them as an effective tool for controlling and punishing women. Once misogynists demonized women's sexuality and their freedom to express it out of men's absolute control, it was a short step toward defining women's sexual independence as literally demonic. Misogyny intersected with religious persecution and they synergized with each other.
Thanks!
I dunno man. Wicca is a very new, revival religion which has barely been around for a century, which only bears a passing resemblance to historic witchcraft. I understand if you're going to have a show which reflects modern real-world witches wanting to be accurate, but I have to think that real-life witches from the MCU would be really condescending towards it.
Unless in the MCU, historic witchcraft did resemble its modern counterpart. I mean, that's no more unlikely than the Norse, Greek, and Egyptian gods actually existing, or the Earth being an egg for an embryonic Eternal.
The Marvel Studios Assembled episode has dropped on YouTube.
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Can't wait!
...although I can't believe I completely forgot an Assembled episode would be coming for the show. I was completely focused on the one for Deadpool & Wolverine that it slipped my mind.
...although I can't believe I completely forgot an Assembled episode would be coming for the show. I was completely focused on the one for Deadpool & Wolverine that it slipped my mind.
Weirdly, I couldn't find it on Disney+, even when I went to the search bar and looked for it directly. Ended up watching the above video instead.
Either way, it was a fantastic watch. We already had gotten a couple of behind-the-scenes videos of the intricated work everyone did for the show, from the costumes to the set productions, but this entry of Assembled really dug into those details. I also loved hearing the mindsets of the Lopezes in how they developed not just "The Ballad of the Witches' Road" but how they had to develop all of the different versions at the same time, while incorporating different genres, cultures, and histories.
I'm simply in awe of everyone's work on this show.
Either way, it was a fantastic watch. We already had gotten a couple of behind-the-scenes videos of the intricated work everyone did for the show, from the costumes to the set productions, but this entry of Assembled really dug into those details. I also loved hearing the mindsets of the Lopezes in how they developed not just "The Ballad of the Witches' Road" but how they had to develop all of the different versions at the same time, while incorporating different genres, cultures, and histories.
I'm simply in awe of everyone's work on this show.