It is, there's a sequal/remake in the works isn't there?
Advice on buying my first handgun...
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It is also incredibly paranoid.
A
Amaris
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Not really. Its just being prepared. No more paranoid than having a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher in your home.
Whatever that means.First Aid Kit - $30
Fire Extinguisher - $60
Global Economic Meltdown - Priceless
I would do that just for the amusing image. Plus it's certainly more intimidating than my current home defense system; a Playmates phaser.
Well, regardless of the reason the OP thinks he may want a handgun the answer to the question of which gun is the one that he shoots best. That will be a combination of cartridge and how the gun fits his hand.
For me, those traits come together in the 1911. I can pick one of those up and it will point naturally without having to shift my grip around to get it to feel right, and no contortions of my wrist/arm to get the sights on the target. The single action trigger is just a bonus.
The OP should go rent some guns at his local range and see what he likes. If 9mm is desired I might suggest putting a Hi-Power on the short list.
For me, those traits come together in the 1911. I can pick one of those up and it will point naturally without having to shift my grip around to get it to feel right, and no contortions of my wrist/arm to get the sights on the target. The single action trigger is just a bonus.
The OP should go rent some guns at his local range and see what he likes. If 9mm is desired I might suggest putting a Hi-Power on the short list.
unless you plan on killing that person
I'll try to give you a general rundown on what your options are. Your best bet is probably a shotgun, but I'll look at handguns as well. The most important thing to keep in mind is that guns are serious business. Don't buy them to feel like a man, you are not Dirty Harry. Guns are dangerous, treat them with respect. Also, I put a lot of work into this post, so make sure and read it start to finish. There's plenty of information you'll need. First, some basic rules to follow (slavishly). I borrowed these from The Firing Range subforum of the Something Awful forums, credit where it's due:
Basic Information
The 4 safety rules of gun ownership:
1. All guns are always loaded. Whenever a new gun is introduced in a situation, assume it is loaded. Even if it has been unloaded in a desk drawer for thirty years treat it like it is loaded until you can both visually and physically verify that it is unloaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to
destroy. Assuming you somehow failed to yield to the rule above, keeping the gun pointed at non-living things will go great distances to prevent deadly accidents.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
(and you are ready to shoot). You can’t hurt someone if your finger is off the trigger, so only place your finger on the trigger if you are ready to fire. This practice is also known as “trigger discipline”.
4. Be sure of your target. Know what it is, what is in line with it and
what is behind it. Bullets tend to travel long distances unless stopped by a sizable object. Don’t shoot at an object unless there is something behind the object to prevent further bullet travel from penetrations and misses. Also know that some targets should not be shot at because of the dangers involved. For example don’t shoot surplus steel core ammunition at steel plates for they have tendencies to ricochet.
Okay, so now you know how to go about not killing the wrong people. Let's look at your options:
Shotgun: The most common gauges are 12, 20, and .410. If I were you I'd stick with the 12 gauge. The 20 gauge is acceptable, but the .410 is commonly regarded as a "varmint gun" at best. I mean, don't get me wrong, I still wouldn't want to be shot with a .410, but for home defenses purposes a .410 just isn't recommended. Go with a "pump" action. This is the style you see in the movies, where you pump the part under the barrel back and forth to cycle the shells. It's the easiest and quickest to reload.
The recoil on the 12 gauge isn't as bad as you'd expect. As long as you're holding it properly and weigh more than 150 lbs you'll be fine. I've actually fired my 12 gauge one-handed held out like a pistol before. It's a dumb thing to do so don't try it, but I was still able to handle the recoil just fine.
Personally, I like the Mossberg 500 the best. It has a capacity of 4 shells +1 in the chamber. The 590 model has a higher capacity, sure, but it costs a lot more. 5 shells should be more than enough. There's a few other makes and models that people like. Shop around see what works for you.
Your shotgun will shoot different things depending upon the kind of ammunition you purchase. For shooting skeet, go with target or game loads. The boxes are clearly marked at the store. Make sure they're the same gauge as the gun you bought, obviously.
However, for the purpose of home defense, you're going to want to pick up 00 (or double ought) shells. They are also called "buckshot". Home defense is serious business, not a fun game (I'll go into greater detail on this later). For that reason, you want a load that will reliably put someone down. The double ought won't penetrate walls nearly so much as many pistol and rifle rounds, (for the love of god never use an assault rifle for home defense k?) but is a reliable and effective home defense load. Stay away from shotgun "slugs" unless you're just looking for a good time on the range. They're basically just a giant bullet that comes out of a shotgun, awesome but not overly practical for home defense. Also avoid all those gimmicky specialty shells you might see at a gun show (beanbag, rock salt, etc), even assuming they're reliable. There are a handful of situations where non-lethal shotgun shells might be a good idea. You won't find yourself in any of them.In my next post, I'll address pistols and home defense.
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Pistols: While I personally think pistols are inferior to shotguns for home defense, they are nevertheless a hell of a lot of fun to shoot and if you're looking to concealed carry a firearm than you'll need a pistol. Note: if you're interested in concealed carry, check your local laws involving becoming certified to concealed carry as well as where you can and cannot carry a firearm.
The biggest decision you'll have to make when purchasing a pistol is the caliber you will wish to purchase. Common pistol calibers include .22, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40, .45 ACP, and more. What I'm about to say is a strictly personal opinion: go with the 9mm. Nine is fine. The advantages of a 9mm pistol are that they typically come with a higher capacity and are much cheaper to shoot. More important than what gun you buy is how experienced you are firing that gun. Some dumbass who buys a Desert Eagle .50 to look cool is far less effective than a well-trained individual with a 9mm. Cheap ammunition gives you the opportunity to regularly take your gun out to the range to plink away at targets. However, let me repeat my advice: look around and find out what gun works best for you. Go to a gun show and handle the different types, ask a friend to take you out shooting. If you end up buying a .45, more power to you.
Over the weekend, I just purchased a Springfield Armory XD-M 9mm handgun. You can read about it here: http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php. It's one of the most sought after guns on the market currently. The 9mm model is basically nine with the body of a much larger gun, allowing the magazine to stack nineteen rounds. This capacity is just ridiculous for a 9mm. I'm really happy with this gun, though it may be a bit out of your price range. I payed $600 for it at a gun show.
I don't mean to give you the impression that a 9mm is ineffective, far from it. Which brings me to another thing you need to be aware of, regardless of what caliber you purchase. When you are purchasing rounds for target practice, you'll probably want to go with full metal jacket rounds (FMJ). They're cheaper and since you're not looking to shoot to kill, they're the best option. The world wouldn't come crashing down if you used them for home defense, it's just that they aren't the right tool for the job. Ignore frangible rounds. They are apparently good for indoor shooting, and that's about it.
For home defense, you will want to purchase jacketed hollow points (JHP). You've probably heard of hollow points and have some idea of what they do. Basically, a hollow point round expands and deforms when it strikes a target. The exit wound from a hollow point round is substantially larger than the entry wound. The 9mm has substantially better put down power when you are firing hollow point rounds. They are your best bet for home defense. Hollow points get a bad rap, because truthfully they aren't a pretty thing, but there's nothing pretty about killing a person. Which leads me to a quick discussion about the do's and don't's of home defense.
Home defense: Ignore what you've just read in this thread about home defense. The event that you will ever have to defend your home using a firearm is statistically improbable. In the unlikely event that someone breaks into your home while you are in it, the absolute last thing you want to do is shoot them. There are moral, legal, and psychological dimensions to this, but just keep in mind: killing a person is awful. I'm glad I'm not saying this from personal experience. It will undoubtedly bring you a great deal of legal trouble and will cause you and your family a lot of psychological pain and stress. If some asshole wants your television, let him take it. Your possessions aren't worth taking a life over, not ethically and not legally. Families will very often sell their home after a home invasion that ended in a shooting, such is the psychological stress of killing a person.
The only time you should use your firearm against an intruder is when you believe your life or that of someone in your home is in imminent danger. I understand that a home invasion is a very scary experience, and maybe just their presence alone is enough to make you feel that your life is threatened. Here's what you should not do, however:
-Pump your shotgun loudly and menacingly to scare someone out of your house. I know it looks good in the movies, but I say again: the only situation where a gun is required is one where your life is being threatened. Loudly cycling your gun for effect has no place in such a situation. People also have this odd notion of loading up with blanks to "scare" an intruder away. Your typical handgun is unable to cycle out a blank round automatically without being adapted. You would need to eject the casing and cycle the gun by hand. Go ahead, I'm sure the intruder doesn't mind waiting. Aside from that, as I'll say a million times, home invasions aren't the time to start getting clever. If you need to shoot, shoot to kill. If you don't need to shoot, don't shoot.
-Shoot to wound. You are not capable of shooting to wound. Trained law enforcement officers cannot consistently and accurately shoot out someone's knees or whatever other fantasy you might dream up. Police officers are trained to shoot for the “center mass”, which is the torso (chest, stomach). This is the largest part of the human body, and it also has the advantage of containing nearly all of your vital organs. Shooting to wound will get you killed, don't even try it.
Also, United States courts historically look down on shooting to wound for the simple reason that it tends to prove that you weren't in a life-threatening situation after all. For the umpteenth time, only in a situation that directly threatens your life or that of someone under your protection should you even consider killing someone. Your ethical views may differ, but American law takes an extremely dim of shooting people. Probably too extreme, but those are the laws and you have to obey them.
What you should do: Ideally, in a home invasion your best bet would be to gather your family members in one room and lock the door. Dial 911 while covering the door with your firearm. You can loudly tell the intruder that you are calling the police and that you are armed. Wait in the room until the police arrive and follow all instructions. If the intruder is psychotic enough as to actually attempt entry into the room, this is a clearly intended threat to your life, and you are fully justified in defending yourself.
Obviously, this scenario is only an ideal and in the unlikely event your home is invaded you may not have the opportunity to gather your family together. Just do not, for the love of god do not go around like some cowboy pumping your gun and trying to shoot theirs out of their hand. For the last time, this is serious business.
OP, if you have any additional questions that can be answered, I'd be happy to help. Also, talk to the guy down at your local gun shop. They're almost always pretty knowledgeable and more than happy to help. Make sure you follow all your local, state, and federal laws regarding gun possession and make sure to train often.
The biggest decision you'll have to make when purchasing a pistol is the caliber you will wish to purchase. Common pistol calibers include .22, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40, .45 ACP, and more. What I'm about to say is a strictly personal opinion: go with the 9mm. Nine is fine. The advantages of a 9mm pistol are that they typically come with a higher capacity and are much cheaper to shoot. More important than what gun you buy is how experienced you are firing that gun. Some dumbass who buys a Desert Eagle .50 to look cool is far less effective than a well-trained individual with a 9mm. Cheap ammunition gives you the opportunity to regularly take your gun out to the range to plink away at targets. However, let me repeat my advice: look around and find out what gun works best for you. Go to a gun show and handle the different types, ask a friend to take you out shooting. If you end up buying a .45, more power to you.
Over the weekend, I just purchased a Springfield Armory XD-M 9mm handgun. You can read about it here: http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php. It's one of the most sought after guns on the market currently. The 9mm model is basically nine with the body of a much larger gun, allowing the magazine to stack nineteen rounds. This capacity is just ridiculous for a 9mm. I'm really happy with this gun, though it may be a bit out of your price range. I payed $600 for it at a gun show.
I don't mean to give you the impression that a 9mm is ineffective, far from it. Which brings me to another thing you need to be aware of, regardless of what caliber you purchase. When you are purchasing rounds for target practice, you'll probably want to go with full metal jacket rounds (FMJ). They're cheaper and since you're not looking to shoot to kill, they're the best option. The world wouldn't come crashing down if you used them for home defense, it's just that they aren't the right tool for the job. Ignore frangible rounds. They are apparently good for indoor shooting, and that's about it.
For home defense, you will want to purchase jacketed hollow points (JHP). You've probably heard of hollow points and have some idea of what they do. Basically, a hollow point round expands and deforms when it strikes a target. The exit wound from a hollow point round is substantially larger than the entry wound. The 9mm has substantially better put down power when you are firing hollow point rounds. They are your best bet for home defense. Hollow points get a bad rap, because truthfully they aren't a pretty thing, but there's nothing pretty about killing a person. Which leads me to a quick discussion about the do's and don't's of home defense.
Home defense: Ignore what you've just read in this thread about home defense. The event that you will ever have to defend your home using a firearm is statistically improbable. In the unlikely event that someone breaks into your home while you are in it, the absolute last thing you want to do is shoot them. There are moral, legal, and psychological dimensions to this, but just keep in mind: killing a person is awful. I'm glad I'm not saying this from personal experience. It will undoubtedly bring you a great deal of legal trouble and will cause you and your family a lot of psychological pain and stress. If some asshole wants your television, let him take it. Your possessions aren't worth taking a life over, not ethically and not legally. Families will very often sell their home after a home invasion that ended in a shooting, such is the psychological stress of killing a person.
The only time you should use your firearm against an intruder is when you believe your life or that of someone in your home is in imminent danger. I understand that a home invasion is a very scary experience, and maybe just their presence alone is enough to make you feel that your life is threatened. Here's what you should not do, however:
-Pump your shotgun loudly and menacingly to scare someone out of your house. I know it looks good in the movies, but I say again: the only situation where a gun is required is one where your life is being threatened. Loudly cycling your gun for effect has no place in such a situation. People also have this odd notion of loading up with blanks to "scare" an intruder away. Your typical handgun is unable to cycle out a blank round automatically without being adapted. You would need to eject the casing and cycle the gun by hand. Go ahead, I'm sure the intruder doesn't mind waiting. Aside from that, as I'll say a million times, home invasions aren't the time to start getting clever. If you need to shoot, shoot to kill. If you don't need to shoot, don't shoot.
-Shoot to wound. You are not capable of shooting to wound. Trained law enforcement officers cannot consistently and accurately shoot out someone's knees or whatever other fantasy you might dream up. Police officers are trained to shoot for the “center mass”, which is the torso (chest, stomach). This is the largest part of the human body, and it also has the advantage of containing nearly all of your vital organs. Shooting to wound will get you killed, don't even try it.
Also, United States courts historically look down on shooting to wound for the simple reason that it tends to prove that you weren't in a life-threatening situation after all. For the umpteenth time, only in a situation that directly threatens your life or that of someone under your protection should you even consider killing someone. Your ethical views may differ, but American law takes an extremely dim of shooting people. Probably too extreme, but those are the laws and you have to obey them.
What you should do: Ideally, in a home invasion your best bet would be to gather your family members in one room and lock the door. Dial 911 while covering the door with your firearm. You can loudly tell the intruder that you are calling the police and that you are armed. Wait in the room until the police arrive and follow all instructions. If the intruder is psychotic enough as to actually attempt entry into the room, this is a clearly intended threat to your life, and you are fully justified in defending yourself.
Obviously, this scenario is only an ideal and in the unlikely event your home is invaded you may not have the opportunity to gather your family together. Just do not, for the love of god do not go around like some cowboy pumping your gun and trying to shoot theirs out of their hand. For the last time, this is serious business.
OP, if you have any additional questions that can be answered, I'd be happy to help. Also, talk to the guy down at your local gun shop. They're almost always pretty knowledgeable and more than happy to help. Make sure you follow all your local, state, and federal laws regarding gun possession and make sure to train often.
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^for a shotgun, to minimize wall penetration while going for a larger spread, I recomend #3 buck shot, also, I recomend the Mossberg 500 with the tactical option, the pistol grip and lower weight helps with mobilty, but makes the kick harder, personally, like i said earlier, but to be honest, any shotgun is going to be a hinderance in close quarters due to it's length, weights, and low ammunition capacity, get a glock in the .357sig, I tried one last weekend and i Liked it ALOT better than my glock clone in the .40S&W
True, although wall penetration on the double ought really isn't all that some people make it out to be. Any kind of buckshot works pretty well. #3 is good. Another advantage I forgot: while a shotgun won't exactly hit anything in the general direction of where you point, the spread ensures that you don't need to aim nearly so well in order to hit your target. I found a good description here:http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm for why buckshot is better than bird shot for home defense:
"Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.
Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches."
Quantum said:
You're very welcome. I only want you to be scared out of buying one until you have an informed idea of what kind of gun you want. They're a big purchase, you just want to get the best gun for your investment. I think you should be able to see this forum without paying for an account: http://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=132. The Firing Range has some of the best and most level-headed posters for gun-related questions.
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