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AD versus Common Era

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Simplest explanation is that it's the final piece of conclusive proof that the whole thing is an alternate timeline, start to finish, and no part of the story takes place in the established continuity.

Okay, I don't have time to get sucked into this silly debate again, but, really, guys, what's with this determination to "prove" something that was clearly not intended by the actual film?

Spock Prime came from the old STAR TREK universe to pass the torch to the new STAR TREK universe. That's the whole point of Nimoy's role in the movie, and all sorts of hair-splitting, sophistic nitpicking doesn't change that. To think otherwise is just a willful misinterpretation of the movie.

I mean, seriously, if we're going to insist that an alternate timeline is involved every time there's some minor inconsistency or bit of artistic license, then none of the episodes take place in the same universe.

The old STAR TREK waved good-bye one last time before we moved onto the reboot. It's as simple as that.
 
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Star Trek gets a doctrinal debate...

A possible typology for explaining the Abramsverse:

1) Just like Orci and Kurtzman said. Nero and Spock go back in time, but because of the many worlds branching theory from "Parallels" where apparently everything that could happen would happen the Prime timeline is still there, since Nero could have gone back, or could not have gone back. This contradicts everything we've been shown about time travel before in ST and "splits" the timeline into two branches of the same universe. Unsure if Spock could get back home or not, and what impact this has on time travel from the prime universe back to prior than 2233.

2) Spock Prime and Nero traveled back in time and changed the history of Star Trek as we know it. Spock Prime would hopefully want to fix the timeline to stop the affects of Nero's temporal incursion. As far as the Mirror Universe and other parallel universes shown before are concerned, the Abramsverse is the new prime universe and the Mirror Tholians wouldn't have brought through the USS Defiant unless Spock managed to fix things.

3) The "In a Mirror, Darkly" explanation. Spock and Nero from the mainline universe go back in time to a parallel universe with a different quantum signature, similar yet different from the Prime universe. In theory Spock Prime could time travel to the alternate 2387 and use the Mirror Universe transporter modifications to return home if he could get a lock on the prime universe's quantum signature, or see if The Bajoran Wormhole aliens would help him a la "The Soul Key". I'm in favor of this explanation.

4) Spock Prime and Nero are from an alternate universe (perhaps the Star Trek Online one from the game and Countdown) and travel back in time, changing their history or branching their universe. The Prime universe remains unaffected and Spock and Romulus would be around after 2387. Not likely to be used in the book series because it would contradict the direct intentions of STXI.

5) There are infinite universes where everything thing that could happen, would happen, no matter how impossible. All literary fiction and art exists in its own universe. Everytime a character is killed, a real person in another universe dies.

but uh back to the topic at hand :)
 
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CE sounds more futuristic- they should keep using it.

As far as the real world goes, I have no preference (as I vary rarely have a need to use either.)

If this sort of thing bothers you... then you may need to unwind yourself a few turns.
 
I mean, seriously, if we're going to insist that an alternate timeline is involved every time there's some minor inconsistency or bit of artistic license, then none of the episodes take place in the same universe.
On the other hand, if there is a major inconsistency or a overt effort on the creative teams part to introduce deliberate large systemic changes, then the likelihood of a completely new separate (non-branch) universe, separate from the original prime universe, increases.

... do hereby proclaim Stardate 57613 as Federation Day. I urge all Federates to celebrate the anniversary of the establishment of the United Federation of Planets
With a stardate system and hundreds of planets revolving around various stars, how exactly do you "celebrate the anniversary" of a date?

:)
 
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CE sounds more futuristic- they should keep using it.

As far as the real world goes, I have no preference (as I vary rarely have a need to use either.)

If this sort of thing bothers you... then you may need to unwind yourself a few turns.

Indeed.

Interesting side-note: As we can see here from today's Presidential proclamation on Mother's Day, the U.S. actually uses (at least sometimes) a system where the Gregorian year is listed alongside the year since the independence of the U.S. So this year is both 2011 and 235, and we have a proclamation that ends like this:

Barack Obama said:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 8, 2011, as Mother's Day. I urge all Americans to express their love, respect, and gratitude to mothers everywhere, and I call upon all citizens to observe this day with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.


IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this sixth day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-fifth.


BARACK OBAMA


Which opens up the question: Does the Federation use a calender year that starts from 2161? Does United Earth use a calender system that starts from 2130, the year United Earth came into existence according to Articles of the Federation?

We might, for instance, see a Federation Day (12 August) Presidential Proclamation in Gregorian year 2380 that reads:

Nanietta Bacco said:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, NANIETTA BACCO, President of the United Federation of Planets, do hereby proclaim Stardate 57613 as Federation Day. I urge all Federates to celebrate the anniversary of the establishment of the United Federation of Planets, and I call upon all citizens to observe this day with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.


IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this two hundred twenty-fourth day of Stardate Year 57000, and of the Establishment of the United Federation of Planets the two hundred nineteenth.


NANIETTA BACCO

Although the first part is interesting. The second part not so, like Starfleet isn't the US Navy (or anyother navel force) in space, the UFP or a United Earth shouldn't be the US Federal Government (Or any other governing body except maybe the UN) in space.
 
Star Trek is actually on the right track though by suggesting a base 10 decimalized way of keeping time. I for one would be upset if the books suddenly adopted the Star Trek XI stardate system, which was apparently used on the Jellyfish from 2387. What's up with that one?
If we go with the idea that certain things are meant to be in both realities, it could be a case that the Star Trek XI stardate system is eventually adopted in the original at some point prior to 2387.

Or it could merely be a case that the computer aboard the Jellyfish made a conversion for nuSpock through the Universal Translator. Someone from the original reality might have heard "Stardate 64xxx.x " instead, IMO...

Simplest explanation is that it's the final piece of conclusive proof that the whole thing is an alternate timeline, start to finish, and no part of the story takes place in the established continuity.
Nah.

Old Spock came from the original or prime continuity. That's the simplest explanation.
 
If we go with the idea that certain things are meant to be in both realities, it could be a case that the Star Trek XI stardate system is eventually adopted in the original at some point prior to 2387.

Or it could merely be a case that the computer aboard the Jellyfish made a conversion for nuSpock through the Universal Translator. Someone from the original reality might have heard "Stardate 64xxx.x " instead, IMO...

Simplest explanation is that it's the final piece of conclusive proof that the whole thing is an alternate timeline, start to finish, and no part of the story takes place in the established continuity.
Nah.

Old Spock came from the original or prime continuity. That's the simplest explanation.

Especially since that's the whole dramatic point of his storyline.

If they had wanted to do a story about some weird alternate Spock coming from yet another timeline, they would have done so. But that's not the story they were telling.

Audience are meant to gasp in recognition when Nimoy appears and delivers a nostalgic line from THE WRATH OF KHAN. "Ohmigod, it's the original Spock--from the old movies and tv show!"

If he was supposed to be perceived as a different Spock, they would given him a beard or something. Or maybe cast another actor.

I mean, why bother bringing back Nimoy to play a different Spock?
 
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When ENT was on, there were people who insisted it belonged in an alternate timeline. There were people who said the same about TNG vis-a-vis TOS (and to be fair, TNG-era Roddenberry did regard a lot of TOS as apocryphal). There are a couple of fans on this BBS who still consider everything post-TOS to be apocryphal. If people are determined to believe that, they'll believe that and nobody can convince them otherwise. But the people who actually make future Trek productions aren't going to be bound by their assumptions. So it doesn't really matter. It's the nature of creativity that people in the audience will interpret a work in ways the creators never intended. But that doesn't have to affect how the creators approach their work.
 
We should start a new dating system, with July 16, 1945 as the beginning of Year Zero.

First nuclear detonation. That's the year H. Beam Piper uses for his "year 0" Common Era in his terro-human future history setting.
 
The idea of basing a calendar on the creation of a weapon seems very unpleasant to me. Wouldn't it be better to start it on October 4, 1957, or July 20, 1969?
 
You'd be hard pressed to get nations to agree on a date which has signfigance to one or the other. i.e First manned spaceflight or moon landing. Perhaps go back to the beginning of the millennium.
 
I'd go with something like the first television broadcast or first continent to continent communications.
 
Personally, if we start a new calender, I'm inclined to mark it from the start of Gandhi's nonviolent independence movement, or the date of the legalization of trade unions and strikes, or the abolition of slavery in the British Empire, or from the date of the "I Have A Dream" Speech, or the passage of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, or the publication of Nunca Más, or.... Something that marks a level of social advancement rather than mere technological advancement.

(Probably the UDHR would be the best, since it's the most globally inclusive event.)

* * *

... do hereby proclaim Stardate 57613 as Federation Day. I urge all Federates to celebrate the anniversary of the establishment of the United Federation of Planets

With a stardate system and hundreds of planets revolving around various stars, how exactly do you "celebrate the anniversary" of a date?

:)

Well, we already know that a stardate year seems to correspond to the same length of time as an Earth year, just divided up in units of one thousand instead of months and weeks and days -- stardate year 50xxx corresponded with Gregorian year 2373 (DS9 Season 5, VOY season 3, Star Trek: First Contact). Whether or not the start and end of a stardate year matches up with the start and end of a Gregorian or other Earth calender year is unknown, but it seems pretty clear that stardate years equate to Earth years.

Interesting side-note: As we can see here from today's Presidential proclamation on Mother's Day, the U.S. actually uses (at least sometimes) a system where the Gregorian year is listed alongside the year since the independence of the U.S. So this year is both 2011 and 235, and we have a proclamation that ends like this:

Barack Obama said:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 8, 2011, as Mother's Day. I urge all Americans to express their love, respect, and gratitude to mothers everywhere, and I call upon all citizens to observe this day with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this sixth day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-fifth.

BARACK OBAMA

Which opens up the question: Does the Federation use a calender year that starts from 2161? Does United Earth use a calender system that starts from 2130, the year United Earth came into existence according to Articles of the Federation?

We might, for instance, see a Federation Day (12 August) Presidential Proclamation in Gregorian year 2380 that reads:

Nanietta Bacco said:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, NANIETTA BACCO, President of the United Federation of Planets, do hereby proclaim Stardate 57613 as Federation Day. I urge all Federates to celebrate the anniversary of the establishment of the United Federation of Planets, and I call upon all citizens to observe this day with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this two hundred twenty-fourth day of Stardate Year 57000, and of the Establishment of the United Federation of Planets the two hundred nineteenth.

NANIETTA BACCO

Although the first part is interesting. The second part not so, like Starfleet isn't the US Navy (or anyother navel force) in space,

Actually, the writers have always said that Starfleet is based in part upon the United States Navy.

the UFP or a United Earth shouldn't be the US Federal Government (Or any other governing body except maybe the UN) in space.
Well, it cannot and should not be the U.N. in space, because the U.N. is not a governing body or government or state of any sort. It is an intergovernmental organization whose function it is to provide a platform for the peaceful resolution of conflicts, launching of joint ventures, and the negotiation and establishment of international law between sovereign states; it has no sovereignty in its own right the way the Federation does.

And the Federation is heavily influenced by how the American and British governmental systems work (or, rather, by how they're supposed to work in theory). The Federation government seen in Articles of the Federation is essentially a combination U.S./Westminster system. The Seventh Guarantee of the Federation Constitution from "The Drumhead" is clearly based upon the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The elected Federation President is established as the commander-in-chief in DS9's "Paradise Lost." Etc.

Now, that doesn't mean that the Federation is literally America in space. Obviously it's a great deal more culturally diverse than the United States, and less centralized. A Federation of that many worlds would inherently incorporate legal concepts and traditions from more than just one planet. But that doesn't mean that one potentially useful example -- a sovereign state which uses a calender system dating back to its own creation within recent history -- should be ignored for how the Federation might function. It may well be very useful for the Federation to use, alongside indigenous calenders, an official Federation calender that counts up from the year of the Federation's establishment.
 
I feel like any new dating system has to start with a real paradigm shift event. Outer space, unfortunately, still plays a very limited role in human civilization. But the atomic bomb changed everything--and we still feel its effect today. Unleashing the power of the atom will almost certainly prove more decisive than the birth of Christ. (Hopefully in a good way.)
 
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