Abrams: ST Movie is Not a Traditional Prequel

[[[[MAC]]]]

MisterPL said:
Wasn't Nemesis supposed to be a fan pleaser? As I recall cast members were pretty vocal about how much the fans would love that movie. The same cast members seemed very disappointed in the overall weak fan reaction and were somewhat shocked that what was delivered with "fans" in mind – essentially a TNG-era parody of TWOK – wasn't embraced like an Orion stripper.

Yeah, I'm done pleasing "fans," too. It's about time Paramount called a do-over.

And the last outing for Star Trek, Enterprise was designed from the
ground up as playing fast and loose with the established 'known universe'
to specifically try and attract new viewers (remember: "not your father's
Star Trek") and it just about killed the franchise.

(And then in the last season, when they knew it was all over except the
crying, they threw every old, tired Star Trek cliché at us, but even that
last gasping attempt couldn't pull the series back from the grave.)

Maybe its time to actually try and make a Star Trek for the fans.

Maybe that's the best way to attract new viewers. Actually tell a story
that is the best Star Trek story possible. After all, that's why the
original as endured and why we have all the other series and movies. It
didn't happen because everyone hoped that NG and all that followed
would be good. It all happened because the original was that good!!!

JJ has shown that he has talent. If he wanted to (or was told to), I
think he could tell a story in the Star Trek universe that doesn't need
to break the rules and still have it be a good and popular movie.

MAC

 

[archeryguy1701]

I don't want to come off as brash, but at this point, screw the fans. There will be absolutely no pleasing us. Something will be wrong with the continuity or the color of the uniform, or which eyebrow Spock raises. We will complain no matter what. As I recall, Nemesis was written by a fan for the fans, and every single Trekkie and their dog ripped it! I say JJ should focus on making a high quality movie, and if the fans like it, then that'll be bonus points for him.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

[[[MAC]]] said:
Maybe its time to actually try and make a Star Trek for the fans.

Nah; the studio can find so many ways of spending their money that are far more likely to be profitable than that.

Making Trek for the mainstream is the only way to go, if they're going to invest any money and resources in it. If they wanted to do cheapie straight-to-DVD fare, targeting it at the fans might be worth the much more limited risk.

 

[Kegek]

MisterPL said:
Wasn't Nemesis supposed to be a fan pleaser? As I recall cast members were pretty vocal about how much the fans would love that movie.

The one thing I never fail to find ironic about Nemesis is that its detractors argue it was for the fans, and its few defenders argue... it was not for the fans. The film is packed with little references, but it's ultimately a straightforward action movie that anyone with no knowledge of the franchise would appreciate (while, say, Generations needs a fair deal of prior knowledge for it to be of any significance.)

Besides. Picard driving around on the Argo went against everything we knew about the character on the show. That's hardly pleasing the fans, they'd be the only ones ticked off by that. If they really wanted to make a film for the fans, that wouldn't be in there. I think they made a standard action movie that they hoped to appeal to the general masses; but included enough obligatory fan service to appeal to the fanbase, and then blamed the fanbase when the film was not a hit.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Kegek said: The film is packed with little references, but it's ultimately a straightforward action movie that anyone with no knowledge of the franchise would appreciate...

One of the problems with "Nemesis" was that the budget wasn't sufficient to both do a "Star Trek" movie and to do an action movie that could compete with what folks were used to seeing - the dramatically and visually less-than-successful dune buggy chase being a prime example. Though the film was narratively accessible to new viewers, there just wasn't enough of a movie there to intrigue them.

 

[MisterPL]

Kegek said:
I consider it like Superman Returns as far as that question goes, personally.

Which – all things considered – was more of a remake than a sequel.

I hope Abrams doesn't cherry-pick as much as Singer did. It's either a reboot or it isn't. Choose.

 

[Kegek]

Starship Polaris said:
Though the film was narratively accessible to new viewers, there just wasn't enough of a movie there to intrigue them.

True. It is a failure as an action film; which I think is one of the main reasons it was a failure at the box office. What struck me more than the dune buggy sequence was the choreographed phaser battles first onboard the Scimitar and later on the Enterprise - it's that stitled, kind of silly shooting fest common to the Trek TV series that just doesn't cut it on a big screen.

 

[MisterPL]

Kegek said:
The one thing I never fail to find ironic about Nemesis is that its detractors argue it was for the fans, and its few defenders argue... it was not for the fans.

I don't recall the cast being among the detractors of the film. Quite the opposite unless they admitted afterward that they were just trying to pump sunshine up our skirts.

 

[Kegek]

MisterPL said:
I don't recall the cast being among the detractors of the film.

Yes, I covered them a bit later in my post, they are among those who retroactively blamed the fanbase when the film was a failure.

 

[MisterPL]

Kegek said:
Yes, I covered them a bit later in my post, they are among those who retroactively blamed the fanbase when the film was a failure.

So they've changed their position after all? That this movie wasn't for the fans like they said?

Shame on them. No wonder we won't trust them with another feature.

 

[Maxillius]

Kirk could die in this, say if a decision made by Pike resulted in Kirk's death, or Kirk disobeying orders and meeting his demise.

I say Kirk dies and Pike remains captain of the Enterprise.

 

[Sharr Khan]

I say JJ should focus on making a high quality movie, and if the fans like it, then that'll be bonus points for him.

Agreed!

Sharr

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

I hope there's no truth to the rumor about young Spock knowing about Old Spock's possible death. It would take away too much of Spock's adventure in discovering himself, his sacrifices and living the human adventure over the years. If Old Spock wanted to tip off young Kirk about his eventual death...that could be a nice foreshadowing of Kirk's "I've always known that I'll die alone" line.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

OLD SPOCK: I will soon die.

YOUNG SPOCK: Like, duh. It's only logical - you're hideously old, dude.

 

[Tralah]

Maxillius said:
Kirk could die in this, say if a decision made by Pike resulted in Kirk's death, or Kirk disobeying orders and meeting his demise.

I say Kirk dies and Pike remains captain of the Enterprise.

Mwahaha! Can you imagine the howls of outrage among certain fans if they did that? I almost wish they would.

 

[Holytomato]

OLD SPOCK: I will soon die. &You young whippersnapper, who doesn't understand Star Trek.*

YOUNG SPOCK: Like, duh. It's only logical - you're hideously old, dude. *You have wrinkly old balls. Die already! :zap:*

 

[[[[MAC]]]]

archeryguy1701 said:
I don't want to come off as brash, but at this point, screw the fans. There will be absolutely no pleasing us. Something will be wrong with the continuity or the color of the uniform, or which eyebrow Spock raises. We will complain no matter what. As I recall, Nemesis was written by a fan for the fans, and every single Trekkie and their dog ripped it! I say JJ should focus on making a high quality movie, and if the fans like it, then that'll be bonus points for him.

I don't know anyone that honestly believes that crap about Nemesis
being by fans for fans. If what's his name was a fan when he wrote
it, it really looks like that 'corporate suits' who only know Star
Trek for the money that it usually puts in their pockets gave the
script the once-over before it went in front of the cameras.

As for the idea that they could possibly make a Star Trek product
that would ever bring in 'non-fans' and make them interested in
coming to a Star Trek movie, it makes me laugh (and cry at the
same time). Star Trek fans watch Star Trek. Non-fans think its
way to geeky and will never go in any numbers to make a difference.

That's just a natural law of the universe that even Scotty couldn't
find a way around.

A big name star in a key role might make a difference - can anyone
say 'Matt Damon', and Nemoy is not big enough. Or maybe full frontal
alien nudity and an 'R' rating...

Otherwise, wider viewer appeal, never has happened, aint never gonna
happen...

MAC

 

[archeryguy1701]

Maybe it's impossible to get more people excited and wanting to watch Star Trek. To be honest, that wouldn't surprise me. But if Star Trek is to die a cold, viewerless death, I still stand by my position: Make a good movie first, worry about what the fans want later.

 

[Ovation]

[[[MAC]]] said:



Otherwise, wider viewer appeal, never has happened, aint never gonna
happen...

MAC

Trek IV puts the error to that statement. Nimoy as Spock on more than one cover of Newsweek (not Star Trek Magazine) is another. TNG as the highest rated show (not sci-fi show, but show) in syndication is yet another. Trek is not as mainstream nor as popular as Star Wars (to use a relatively contemporary example--LOTR is a more recent one, if you wish). And, for a while, Trek languished among the hardcore "devoted fans" as their source of viewership. But there is nothing about the concept that makes it "impossible" for a wider audience to embrace. It's all about the execution of the project. And, if the goal is explicitly (as has been stated) to expand beyond the "devoted fans", then the filmmakers CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be held hostage to their "requirements". Cynical as it may be, the studio assumes (correctly) that the overwhelming bulk of the "devoted fans" will go see the movie anyway (if only to prove to themselves that the new version "sukx")--so there is no commercially compelling reason to focus on them. There is, however, every reason to try to expand the viewing audience base.

It's entertainment, not religion. And no one is going to come and collect anyone's "originals" and take them away forever. The "fans" don't "own" Trek.

 

[Holytomato]

"I hope Abrams doesn't cherry-pick as much as Singer did. It's either a reboot or it isn't. Choose."

Why?