"About a dozen officers and men"

[alpha_leonis]

Because the original ten movies are still entertaining, but have not much left to contribute to "new" Star Trek iterations, I'm in the mood to delve into a couple of really obscure details.

In TSFS, when the BoP first appears, Sulu says the ship would typically have "about a dozen officers and men".

For this particular story, I counted 11.

• There was the gunner who got killed by Kruge for his "lucky shot" that destroyed Grissom.
• Six were killed in the destruct sequence.
• Three were killed down on the surface of Genesis. (Spock killed one during one of his rapid aging moments - Kirk phasered one on his arrival - and Kruge himself was killed by Kirk during the dramatic fight scene.)
• That left Maltz, who did not deserve to live but survived anyway.

Did I miss anybody?

 

[Kor]

Memory Alpha shows eleven total individuals: Kruge (kicked over the ledge by Kirk), Maltz (taken prisoner), Torg (died in the self-destruct), three "crewmembers" (all died in the self-destruct), two gunners (first one vaporized by Kruge, second one died in the self-destruct), one helmsman (died in the self-destruct), one sergeant (killed by Kirk on the planet), and one soldier (died when the planet fell apart).
Source: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kruge's_Bird-of-Prey_personnel

Valkris would make an even dozen if she was normally part of Kruge's crew when not out stealing information for him using that "Merchantman" vessel. But this is just a suggestion/speculation on my part, based on the assumption that she would normally be around Kruge a lot since he was "her love."

Kor

 

[The Wormhole]

"About a dozen" doesn't mean twelve exactly. Eleven is still accurate to the term "about a dozen."

 

[Khan Jr]

I got the impression that last warrior was killed from the impact when Spock violently hurled him.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

"About a dozen" doesn't mean twelve exactly. Eleven is still accurate to the term "about a dozen."

But if he'd said "About a baker's dozen officers and men", we'd have reason to debate this!

Anyway, what does he mean by "officers and men"? Are there just random civilian Klingons on board? Perhaps he meant there are about a dozen "officers and gentlemen" on board, which implies there are 12 copies of an old Earth Richard Gere film laying around?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Anyway, what does he mean by "officers and men"? Are there just random civilian Klingons on board?

The Klingons do have enlisted ratings. They're called "bekks".

 

[Imaus]

But if he'd said "About a baker's dozen officers and men", we'd have reason to debate this!

Anyway, what does he mean by "officers and men"? Are there just random civilian Klingons on board? Perhaps he meant there are about a dozen "officers and gentlemen" on board, which implies there are 12 copies of an old Earth Richard Gere film laying around?

No ship is (or at least, shouldn't be) composed of just officers. Officers lead, the 'men' or NCOs/Enlisted follow/do tasks. Knorr, the killer of David, was a Sergeant - a NCO. Still an officer, I guess, but not a Capital-O Officer. And there was a 'Soldier', Regnor, who died when the planet blew, he's just part of the 'men'. The crewmen who board are most likely just enlisted.

Of course, ratings and enlisted aren't 'glamorous' so we barely seem them. O'Brien is a exemption and he's a SCPO. Maybe Lower Decks might change that. But the show thinks for the most part that Ensigns, and not Crewmen, are the dime-a-dozen crew members, though they've tried to step back with lines like 'They didn't go to the Academy, they're not star-fleet officers' and stuff like that. The difference might not be so important in the future, and there's little discussion about the Officer-Enlisted relationship now, but eh.

 

[scotpens]

Anyway, what does he mean by "officers and men"? Are there just random civilian Klingons on board? Perhaps he meant there are about a dozen "officers and gentlemen" on board, which implies there are 12 copies of an old Earth Richard Gere film laying around?

He means the total crew complement. "Officers and men" is a somewhat antiquated way of saying "officers and enlisted personnel."

 

[Timo]

We then need to delve further into this to tell the two sorts apart. What officers were there besides Kruge? Maltz is an obvious candidate, but the costumes and their markings aren't as carefully thought out as their Starfleet equivalents. The third guy in the hushed-voices counsel on what Genesis means is a likely officer, too, I guess. So perhaps just the named characters, then: Kruge, Maltz, Torg.

Do we get cues on what these ranks might be? Are there any rank markers on those costumes?

Also, should we assume a twelfth crewman at the transporter consoles when Kirk and Spock return to the ship? Or did Maltz really control the transporter from the bridge? I mean, we probably shouldn't expect much automation on the Klingon system, especially when it apparently was shot to hell in the initial battle, forcing Kruge to rely on Kirk's transporters for bringing the boarding party aboard.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[alpha_leonis]

I got the impression that last warrior was killed from the impact when Spock violently hurled him.

I got the impression too. That guy was killed when Spock threw him over the fire (judging especially by the other Klingon's reaction, leaning over the body when he landed.)

I also got the impression that the guy Kirk phasered also died from that hit. He was certainly disabled enough that he couldn't help Kruge in the fistfight over the cliff. That left Kruge as the only Klingon left alive on the surface, until Kirk handed him over to gravity.

 

[Vger23]

"About a dozen" doesn't mean twelve exactly. Eleven is still accurate to the term "about a dozen."

It's also possible one crew member died when two photon torpedoes hit the unshielded hull.

 

[Tosk]

I'm not sure what the debate is here. "About" and "typically" are not used to denote strict accuracy. Even if there were only five or as many as thirty, it still wouldn't be an error or cause for complaint. It would just be that things are not as usual.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This is the 12th response in this thread. Any way we could just lock the thread and cap it off here?

 

[Timo]

...Too late!

I'm sure there was a thirteenth Klingon hiding in some grassy closet or another. The old SciPubTech cutaway poster of the BoP adds another dimension to this, though: for the ship's complement, it lists officers, crew and prisoners. I wonder how many of those are standard for a K't'inga or a Vor'Cha?

Timo Saloniemi