Does anyone here have a list of older Trek novels that have continuity problems with the later released shows and novels, specifically the relaunch/post-Nemesis line of novels? I would be particularly interested in knowing if First Frontier, The Yesterday Saga, Uhura's Song, The Devil's Heart and Kahless would fit in one continuity with the more recent novels and if not how big and what the discrepancies are.
A thread about older novels and continuity (that lacks a good name)
- Thread starter Jinn
- Start date
@ryan123450 did something similar with his list of TOS novels that were referenced elsewhere or at least connected somehow
I still count First Frontier in my personal continuity and I've referenced it in one or two of my books, so I think it still fits.
Yesterday's Son can kinda fit if you're willing to ignore TAS, because it's two years after "All Our Yesterday" but the Enterprise has never previously returned to the Guardian planet and Robert Wesley still commands the Lexington. Also, its chronology doesn't fit with AOY being in 2269, but that can be fudged. (Also it doesn't fit with First Frontier because they're both supposed to be the first return visit to the Guardian. Nor does it fit with the Sherman-Shwartz novels, because it posits that the "Enterprise Incident" Commander is dead.) Time for Yesterday, though, references a ton of other '80s-continuity novels (indeed, it's pretty much the linchpin of the '80s continuity because it references so many different books), and a lot of those have been contradicted.
I kept Uhura's Song in my personal continuity for a long time, because it's a favorite of mine, but it required glossing over some bits, and I eventually decided to treat it as part of the '80s continuity (since it references a character from The Entropy Effect). I think its main problem otherwise is just that it takes so much time that it's hard to find room for it in the 5-year mission.
The Devil's Heart had kind of an idiosyncratic interpretation of the Guardian of Forever and of the Iconians and their offshoot races (all of whose names were spelled differently in the book than in the episode script and reference sources). I don't think it fits with the Gateways series for that reason -- nor with the DTI books, I think, because I asserted in Watching the Clock that the Guardian is inaccessible in the 24th century due to increased temporal turbulence.
I'm not sure about Kahless.
Personally, I'm skeptical of its claim that the person cloned in "Rightful Heir" was actually an ally of Kahless rather than Kahless himself, since "Heir" showed us a portrait of the original Kahless, and he looked like the clone. But maybe that could be rationalized if you wanted.
And yet those books also have massive continuity problems. But since even the shows have continuity issues, I just let the details blur in my head and it all melts into a single continuity.
Yup, and many stories published since Yesterday's Son have also run with the idea of Wesley returning to the center seat, post-TAS (2013's Allegiance in Exile, "Where Everybody Knows Your Name" from the Constellations anthology, etc.) by having him resign his Mantilles-governorship at some point following "One of Our Planets is Missing."
For me, that novel generally works if I mentally elide one or two tiny little details (such as the ones you mention, including the Enterprise's last visit to Gateway, and the female Romulan commander being deceased). Greg Cox brought it directly back into the recent novelverse with 2014's No Time Like the Past, so I guess one can still have a version of its events taking place in some form or another if one chooses.
Last edited:
Great, it seems to have an interesting premise.
I will probably treat Uhura's Song and The Yesterday Saga as part of the '80s continuity as they seem to fit there and the latter doesn't fit with First Frontier, which has a premise that I like more.
DTI and Gateways win for me here. I will probably ignore Kahless.
Thank y'all for your help, it is very much appreciated.
Just to be clear, my assessments are only about continuity, not whether the books are worth reading. All the books discussed here range from interesting to really good. So I wouldn't advocate "ignoring" any of them in the sense of not reading them. I may have a small issue with the credibility of Kahless's premise, but I liked the idea behind the story being told -- it had sort of a thematic similarity to Monty Python's Life of Brian, in a way.
Honestly, my biggest problem with Kahless is that it jumped back and forth between the present and past stories far too frequently, alternating them with an average of less than 8 pages per chapter. It was disorienting and didn't seem necessary, since the stories barely interrelated. It would've been better to have fewer, longer chapters, like in Spock's World. I'm inclined to recommend reading the two storylines separately -- maybe starting with the 24th-century one, since the past storyline is stronger.
Honestly, my biggest problem with Kahless is that it jumped back and forth between the present and past stories far too frequently, alternating them with an average of less than 8 pages per chapter. It was disorienting and didn't seem necessary, since the stories barely interrelated. It would've been better to have fewer, longer chapters, like in Spock's World. I'm inclined to recommend reading the two storylines separately -- maybe starting with the 24th-century one, since the past storyline is stronger.
For what it's worth, I still reference the older stuff in my books. I referenced Yesterday's Son in No Time Like the Past, and I lifted an entire character from Vulcan's Glory for Child of Two Worlds. And my portrayal of Captain Robert April and his crew in Captain to Captain comes straight from Diane Carey's books.
Hell, at this point, some of my early books probably qualify as "older novels."
Hell, at this point, some of my early books probably qualify as "older novels."
Would that be Captain Flynn aboard the -- oh, I forget. (It wasn't Archer was it? That can't be right and would be just too prescient/) The one Sulu had a fling with? I don't suppose anyone will do it at this late date, but between what we saw of her in McIntyre's books, the mention of her in Dreadnought! and the relative dearth of female captains in the Trek universe, I would enjoy a series about her and her crew's adventures.
All duly noted and appreciated! I loved Carey's take on April, so now I am especially excited for the new book!
No -- The Entropy Effect's felinoid character "Snarl" (too lazy to check the spelling of her full name) is referenced a number of times in Uhura's Song, since it's a book about a disease affecting a felinoid species. For a while, I mentally substituted M'Ress, before I decided just to put it with the '80s continuity where it belonged.
And it was Captain Hunter whom Kirk used to tap back in the day, not Sulu.
Strictly speaking, The Yesterday Saga doesn't really fit with other stories either, including episodes of TAS and such, but again, it's just a matter of little details (such as when the Enterprise last visited), not huge ones. Like I said, if Greg can bring it back into the modern continuity, it's a pretty flexible story.
Oh, were you talking about Captain Hunter, Kirk's old friend? Her ship was the Aerfen. (Which is the name of a Celtic warrior goddess.) Sulu admired Hunter and, in the book's alternate timeline, transferred to her ship. His lover was Lt. Commander Mandala Flynn, the Enterprise's security chief. By McIntyre's movie novelizations, she'd become captain of the Magellanic Clouds, an extragalactic explorer.
Honestly, I was bit bemused when people started talking about how I had "restored" the Yesterday Saga to the "modern continuity." I wasn't aware that it had ever gone missing, or that there was an official list somewhere of what books we could or couldn't reference anymore.
It was a couple of sentences tipping the hat to the late Ann Crispin. It wasn't meant to be some sweeping change that "officially" put those books back into play again, or that other authors were obliged to honor from now on.
Yesterday's Son is one of the more famous STAR TREK novels, and the first one to hit the bestseller lists as I recall, so it just would have felt weird to return to Sarpeidon and not acknowledge it, regardless of whether that fits with the more recent books or not.
Or at least that was my reasoning.
It was a couple of sentences tipping the hat to the late Ann Crispin. It wasn't meant to be some sweeping change that "officially" put those books back into play again, or that other authors were obliged to honor from now on.
Yesterday's Son is one of the more famous STAR TREK novels, and the first one to hit the bestseller lists as I recall, so it just would have felt weird to return to Sarpeidon and not acknowledge it, regardless of whether that fits with the more recent books or not.
Or at least that was my reasoning.
Clearly, my memory of The Entropy Effect leaves much to be desired.
Was Snarl in Entropy Effect, too? I thought she was only in McIntyre's novel of ST III. But we've already seen how trustworthy my memory is....!
Was Snarl in Entropy Effect, too? I thought she was only in McIntyre's novel of ST III. But we've already seen how trustworthy my memory is....!
Even if they won't be Hunter and Flynn, I'd like to see two women as captain and first officer of a new starship in the new series. Of course, they're not asking me, but, still, I think it could prove an interesting dynamic, and something the franchise hasn't done before.
McIntyre also invented Jenniver Arestides (?), a somewhat evolved human born and raised on an alien world, as a security officer/chief, right?
It's funny how easily I accepted new characters as somehow "real" in the old books, but stumble when I read about new characters on the Enterprise in the "present day" in the TNG novels. It's no fault of the authors, they do a good job - I think it's just something about me getting older. Set in my ways, I guess. If I pick up a Trek novel, I prefer it to be about the characters I saw on screen. It's illogical and unfair, but there it is.
True Treklit confessions.
McIntyre also invented Jenniver Arestides (?), a somewhat evolved human born and raised on an alien world, as a security officer/chief, right?
It's funny how easily I accepted new characters as somehow "real" in the old books, but stumble when I read about new characters on the Enterprise in the "present day" in the TNG novels. It's no fault of the authors, they do a good job - I think it's just something about me getting older. Set in my ways, I guess. If I pick up a Trek novel, I prefer it to be about the characters I saw on screen. It's illogical and unfair, but there it is.
True Treklit confessions.
God,this thread is dredging up memories for me...Mandala Flynn...it all seems so long ago.
I would love to see some of those older "bit players" brought back,especially that fearsome team of red shirts that Snarl was a part of.(There aren't nearly enough fearsome red shirts in Treklit).
I would love to see some of those older "bit players" brought back,especially that fearsome team of red shirts that Snarl was a part of.(There aren't nearly enough fearsome red shirts in Treklit).
Oh, yes! I was confusing Snarl with some cat-character who started with an "F" in the ST III novel. "Must be going senile..."
I'm all for fearsome red shirts. Who could also be the plucky comic relief.
I'm all for fearsome red shirts. Who could also be the plucky comic relief.
Flynn was the chief. Aristides and Snarl were among her officers. Aristides was a "Changed" human, a genetically engineered heavy-worlder, since the whole "Federation ban on genetic engineering" idea wasn't invented until "Doctor Bashir, I Presume."
Similar threads
