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A Starbase NCO in "Court Martial"?

That position-not-rank theory on dress uniforms is strangely alluring, for all its consistency. But I'd still go for it denoting exact ranks; the few mistakes might best be explained away, just like the reference to "LtCmdr Spock" is better explained away as a "dialogue oddity" rather than a "costuming error that lasts for exactly one episode".

On the trivia side, let's not forget that Mendez is never really associated with command of SB11. He merely happens to be there; his unusual uniform color choice might suggest command of a local fleet or flotilla, associating him more with the goldshirted Decker and Wesley than with the otherwise redshirted starbase staff and known starbase COs.

Commodore Stone could well have remained in charge - but he'd not be eager to converse with Kirk in the aftermath of the last embarrassment...

Timo Saloniemi
 
So maybe the gold piping does not indicate rank, but rather the role of the person wearing the dress uniform. If you're the C.O. of a ship or installation, you get the "gold neck tie" down the front. If you're an XO, you get a little less piping. And maybe if you're a department head or a senior NCO, you get very thin piping.

That would be a neat, and decidedly non-militaristic approach. I like that.
 
That position-not-rank theory on dress uniforms is strangely alluring, for all its consistency. But I'd still go for it denoting exact ranks; the few mistakes might best be explained away, just like the reference to "LtCmdr Spock" is better explained away as a "dialogue oddity" rather than a "costuming error that lasts for exactly one episode".

As I recall, this is not the only ep in which Spock is identified by spoken word as a lieutenant commander while his sleeve braids apparently suggest he is actually a full commander. I believe that Kirk does it again in the "little green men" encounter with Capt. Christopher in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".


On the trivia side, let's not forget that Mendez is never really associated with command of SB11. He merely happens to be there; his unusual uniform color choice might suggest command of a local fleet or flotilla, associating him more with the goldshirted Decker and Wesley than with the otherwise redshirted starbase staff and known starbase COs.

Commodore Stone could well have remained in charge - but he'd not be eager to converse with Kirk in the aftermath of the last embarrassment...

Timo Saloniemi


If you check out the scene at the end of "The Menagerie, Part II" when Uhura calls in from the bridge and reads a communique from "Mendez, J.I., Commodore, Starbase 11", you'll be as perplexed as I am about the whole thing.

Here's my theory:

Normal "duty fatigues" (the colored long-sleeve t-shirts and black trousers ensemble) are set up for everyday use. The color denotes which discipline the wearer is assigned to, the badge/patch denotes a unit/fleet (I like to assume that Kirk's arrowhead insignia represents the "First Fleet", or maybe some other regional organization in Federation space) and the symbol within the badge may indicate a department or perhaps a more specific assignment than the tunic color. And the sleeves indicate rank, although the braiding system does not make sense in TOS, and flatly contradict the spoken dialogue on more than one occasion.

Dress uniforms (or, at least we assume the shiny tunics we see are their dress uniforms, and not some less formal Class A's or something like that) may speak more to title ("I'm a CO", "I'm a department head") with their gold piping. The colored speckles on their chests may indicate ribbons and medals earned, or something else entirely (like rank, unit/flotilla, special titles, etc.). In this scenario, it is most interesting that rank is not necessarily spelled out (unless it is part of the colored speckles). And what suggests to me is that these are Class A's and not the most fancy version is that the shiny tunics still carry the discipline color. If this was like the U.S. Navy and they had an even high level of dress chokers, the uniforms might all be the same color (white).

As far as Mendez is concerned, you may right, Timo. Mendez could be Starfleet Command's senior administrator in Sector 11 (for sake of argument), while Stone may be busy running the sector's starbase. It could also be that Stone runs the base, the base is one of the Enterprise's "assigned ports" at that point, and Mendez commands all Federation starships (or is the field agent for an admiral who does) assigned to that port.

Does any of this make sense?
 
If the amount of trim indeed reflected the "assignment level" rather than rank, that would jibe better with the older pilot-episodes uniform insignia. And that would make sense, too, as dress uniforms tend to hew to tradition and are usually the last to be updated or changed.

As I recall, this is not the only ep in which Spock is identified by spoken word as a lieutenant commander while his sleeve braids apparently suggest he is actually a full commander. I believe that Kirk does it again in the "little green men" encounter with Capt. Christopher in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".

Yes, and "The Menagerie (Part I)," also, and he shares the discrepancy with Finney and Giotto.

--Justin
 
Yes, it is an interesting discussion. It seems the apparent "loose ends" and contradictions in TOS allow for quite a bit of interpolation and speculation if not a patchwork of "filling in the blanks". There's also a certain artistic splendor in creating the setting of this particular story, with the starbase office-with-a-view (and it's own cozy transporter), as well as that impressive courtroom set and those shiny uniforms. One thing is certain: I see the characters in this ep in a much less military light than I did previously.

It looks to me like the court clerk was enlisted, likely an NCO, although I'm not sure if he was a chief. I say this because he is performing menial, if not technical duties during the proceedings (taking people's "floppies" and feeding them to the court's master computer, operating the computer controls, and later on the Enterprise bridge he carries a tricorder: this suggests to me he is recording the proceedings) and yet he does not speak to anyone. He obviously does not administrate any personnel in the room, only equipment. That's a specialist/technical job (enlisted) as opposed to Commodore Stone, who administers the court as a generalist (commissioned).

At least the uniforms do not contradict this, even if they do not affirm it, either.
 
It doesn't appear as if Roddenberry's "vision" of an all-officer crew would ever have been seriously considered in the writing. The early episodes go out of their way to show "working stiffs" of all sorts, often in an unflattering light; "Man Trap" has them ignoring orders for the slightest excuse (such as a hot-looking salt vampire girl), "Charlie X" has them slapping bottoms, etc.

It's too bad that the early costuming variety didn't carry to the later seasons. Having the occasional crewman wear protective gear or a tool vest or at least carry a toolbox would have helped the ship come alive.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Wouldn't the people in the wrap around jumpsuits be enlisted? Like Chief Kyle? I think he was a chief, I might have remembered wrong.
 
There are parallels between Transporter Chief Kyle in TOS and Chief O'Brien in TNG and DS9. Both characters, in their earliest appearances, appear very vaguely, as if one could take them to be either junior commissioned officers or NCOs. If you exclude "The Immunity Syndrome", in which Kirk refers to the differently uniformed helmsman as "Cowl", you could form a vague argument that Kyle was an enlisted (or warrant) chief in charge of Transporter technical operations.

If you look at "Encounter at Farpoint", it appears that O'Brien, distantly, seems to be a lieutenant. But from "Family" forward, it is clear that Worf's stepfather identifies with O'Brien as a fellow CPO. I believe this is referred to at least a couple of times in DS9 as well, although I don't have specific citations.

As for the notion of the term yeoman meaning something significantly different in the futuristic world of TOS, you could say that, but there doesn't appear to be any compelling reason to adopt that view. No character ever specifically says anything to back that up. If you wanted to go that route, you could also re-define that nature of all common naval and military terms, including "commission", "rank", and so on. We know that in our time, the term yeoman refers to a clerical petty officer, an NCO, by definition.
 
Wouldn't the people in the wrap around jumpsuits be enlisted? Like Chief Kyle? I think he was a chief, I might have remembered wrong.
Kyle was a lieutenant. He was addressed as such by Spock in "Who Mourns For Adonais?", suggesting that the wraparound jumpsuits are just work coveralls that could be worn by both officers and enlisted alike.

Conversely, you had people specifically referred to as crewmen like Green ("The Man Trap") and Jackson ("Catspaw") who wear standard uniforms indistinguishable from ensigns.
 
Wouldn't the people in the wrap around jumpsuits be enlisted? Like Chief Kyle? I think he was a chief, I might have remembered wrong.
Kyle was a lieutenant. He was addressed as such by Spock in "Who Mourns For Adonais?", suggesting that the wraparound jumpsuits are just work coveralls that could be worn by both officers and enlisted alike.

Agreed. In fact, doesn't Uhura wear such a jumpsuit in an early episode when she's working on her console?
 
Kyle was a lieutenant. He was addressed as such by Spock in "Who Mourns For Adonais?", suggesting that the wraparound jumpsuits are just work coveralls that could be worn by both officers and enlisted alike.

Right. Also Lieutenant Singh in "The Changeling."
 
I think Dr. McCoy wore a blue one at least once, I was refering to them wearing it all the time, but Kyle did have different changes of uniform, too.

I thought someone was addressed as "Chief" which is not an officer rank, however it could be a position title rather than rank, like "Transporter Chief" I know for a time I thought that being Science Officer and Chief Engineer would make someone 2nd and 3rd in command, which is obviously wrong. Those job titles don't automatically guarentee you a slot in the command structure. Spock and Scott were just so qualified they made double duty seem to be the norm.
 
I think Dr. McCoy wore a blue one at least once, I was refering to them wearing it all the time, but Kyle did have different changes of uniform, too.

And there were apparently-enlisted personnel like the "crewmen" mentioned above and Yeoman Third Class Lawton who wore "regular" uniforms without rank stripes. The best evidence is, ensigns and everyone below that grade wore no rank insignia. Which doesn't make much sense, but there it is.

I know for a time I thought that being Science Officer and Chief Engineer would make someone 2nd and 3rd in command, which is obviously wrong. Those job titles don't automatically guarentee you a slot in the command structure. Spock and Scott were just so qualified they made double duty seem to be the norm.

For Scotty I don't think it was double duty, he was just the next-ranking line officer after Spock.
 
In the mid 60's, considering the relatively large percentage of the population that had served in the military, perhaps in WW2, Korea or Vietnam, and with the draft still in effect in the US in any case, you would think that the writers, directors, and producers would have been a little more consistent about details like Starfleet ranks and ratings. How many of the Trek production staff, starting with Roddenberry himself, had served? It seems a little sloppy to me that these things weren't clearer and more obvious; at least by TNG we had the pip system in place that somewhat mirrored the ranks of our present-day navies.
 
In the mid 60's, considering the relatively large percentage of the population that had served in the military, perhaps in WW2, Korea or Vietnam, and with the draft still in effect in the US in any case, you would think that the writers, directors, and producers would have been a little more consistent about details like Starfleet ranks and ratings. How many of the Trek production staff, starting with Roddenberry himself, had served? It seems a little sloppy to me that these things weren't clearer and more obvious; at least by TNG we had the pip system in place that somewhat mirrored the ranks of our present-day navies.
Roddenberry was a bomber pilot in WWII. Gene Coon was a Marine. Bob Justman was in the Navy. Nimoy was in the US Army Reserve. Kelley was in the USAAF. Doohan was in the Royal Canadian Air Force.

It's not sloppy, just not as important to them as it might be to fans.
 
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