A quirky question
- Thread starter Yunikuron
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That suggests that it was an idiosyncrasy unique to the captain. In "Before and After", Chakotay is captain, and several other officers have ranked up. Tuvok is either a LCDR or commander. Tom is a LCDR, and Harry is a full lieutenant. Neelix refers to himself as a security officer, but we don't see if he has a rank.
The theory in the community that Janeway secretly hated Harry should have been easily dismissed... but sadly, given the unwarranted damage her actions did to his career, it makes sense.
If we’re trying to make sense of Harry’s lack of promotion in a Watsonian manner (which I do not advise, it’s Doylist in nature), I prefer the theory that Janeway is babying Harry. I can never buy her hating him but, if pressed, I can squint and sorta see her keeping him in a perpetual “boyhood” as a pathological means of protecting him. This makes Janeway the ultimate mother hen, refusing to let her last baby chick out from under the shelter of her wings and I don’t like the way it distorts her care for him into something toxic as well as how easily it slides into a form of “women need something to nurture or they go crazy” style misogyny. However, even that is preferable to “Janeway hated Harry.”
Actually, I believe evil Janeway did refer to Kim at one point as lieutenant.
It assassinates her character either way.Consider the following, from "Nightingale".
KIM: "...I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign."
[Harry states a fact, regarding his rank]
JANEWAY: "If this is your way of bucking for a promotion..."
[Instead of sympathizing with him, Janeway accuses him]
KIM: "No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique."
[Harry does the only thing a junior officer can do under these circumstances; he tells his CO what she wants to hear]
"But the fact is, if we were back home, I'd be a Lieutenant by now. Maybe even a Lieutenant Commander."
[This is indeed a fact. Riker's career shows that it's feasible to make full commander in seven years]
JANEWAY: "You're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you?"
[A denigrating remark, considering that only an incompetent or troublemaker would fail to make lieutenant in 7 years]
That's not the Janeway we know and love. It's a twisted version of her, created for a scene that was intended to basically say
-you to everyone who wrote in a complaint after Tom's promotion in "Unimatrix Zero".
I never watched season 7 so I haven't seen this conversation before.It assassinates her character either way.Consider the following, from "Nightingale".
KIM: "...I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign."
[Harry states a fact, regarding his rank]
JANEWAY: "If this is your way of bucking for a promotion..."
[Instead of sympathizing with him, Janeway accuses him]
KIM: "No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique."
[Harry does the only thing a junior officer can do under these circumstances; he tells his CO what she wants to hear]
"But the fact is, if we were back home, I'd be a Lieutenant by now. Maybe even a Lieutenant Commander."
[This is indeed a fact. Riker's career shows that it's feasible to make full commander in seven years]
JANEWAY: "You're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you?"
[A denigrating remark, considering that only an incompetent or troublemaker would fail to make lieutenant in 7 years]
That's not the Janeway we know and love. It's a twisted version of her, created for a scene that was intended to basically say
But Janeway is downright horrible here. Not the Janeway from seasons 1-3 who cared a lot for her crew and all individual crewmembers.
I never really liked how Janeway "developed" in later seasons. Another example that the writers lost it.
Why is it that I've been a member of this forum for less than a month and am already a LTjg...
.
.
.
.
.
.
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Yet it's been over 25 years, and Harry Kim is still an Ensign????
(EDIT: corrected my math, somehow screwed up and miscounted the decades)
I'm so disgusted right now that I just cannot find the words to respond to this. At this point, I no longer give two shits about Harry Kim remaining an ensign. You know what? I never have. Trust pop culture fans to beat a dead horse over nothing.
Then I guess I'm standing over a large pile of equine hamburger with a gore-streaked baseball bat in one hand, a police baton in the other, and a flanged steel mace stuck in my belt.
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Did you come to this thread just to add this valuable insight?
Sometimes it's a persons first time in the conversation and I think it's fine if they bring up stuff that people have talked about before. I've never been in a Harry Kim promotions thread before. I'd never even considered it when I watched in the 90s. At the time I actually found DS9 the odd one out because their guys did get promoted. Almost everyone except Quark got a promotion or a status change at least by show's end (which I love about Quark's fate). I like the fun explanations people come up with for why something in-universe is the way it is.
TNG was more promotion-heavy than most people realize.
Picard: Offered promotion, declined.
Riker: Offered promotional least three times, declined.
Deanna: Promoted from LCDR to CDR.
Geordi: Promoted twice, going from LTJG to LCDR.
Worf: Promoted twice if you count "Generations".
Wesley: Promoted from acting ensign to full ensign, with uniform privileges.
Ro: Promoted from ENS to LTJG.
Ogawa: Same as Ro.
Only Beverly and Data missed out, presumably because they were at the perceived maximum rank for their post. Which was dumb in Data's case; if Beverly and Deanna could be commanders, no reason why he couldn't.
There's no "explanation" for Harry's seven years as an ensign that can't be quickly dismantled.
If you don't like a topic, you're free to not post in it. You don't have to shit all over it. Try that next time.
I do agree that the Harry not getting promoted bit is wearing a bit stale. Not just on TrekBBS. I see it all over X, YouTube, and Facebook too in the various Trek groups out there. Not sure exactly why after almost 30 years it's become a thing again.
Anyway... we already have an almost 40 page thread devoted to this topic, we don't need another, although I appreciate the humor of the OP. This one is going to bed.
Here's a handy link. Enjoy.
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