A Question About the Keeper

[ZapBrannigan]

At the end of "The Menagerie," the Keeper pops up on the wall screen and talks directly to Kirk. We know Malachi Throne recorded the new dialogue, pitch altered, for the scene.

But the Keeper is looking right into the camera and smiling warmly, his head veins a-pumping. Where did that come from? Was Meg Wylie brought back for that scene and put into Talosian makeup, the full working rig, just for that moment? Or did they have the shot they needed from somewhere in "The Cage"?

 

[Phaser Two]

Good call - I've wondered about that too. It's kind of a spooky moment - but Kirk of course does not scare easily. I think it's Cage footage.

 

[Tosk]

It's old footage. Taken from seemingly an outtake or alternate take from the first time they speak to Pike in the cell.
(Incidentally they aren't looking directly into camera, eyeline is slightly to our left.)

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Is it not extracted from when the Keeper says via thoughts, "we can soon begin the experiment."?

I always thought it was...?

 

[Tosk]

Is it not extracted from when the Keeper says via thoughts, "we can soon begin the experiment."?

I always thought it was...?

That shot is of four Talosians.

The shot used at the end of Menagerie is a two-shot.

Which most closely matches slightly earlier in that scene, around the time of "This is no surprise..." and continuing into the next two shots.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Does the Keeper smile in that earlier two-shot? Or do we think it is an unused shot?

 

[Tosk]

There's no exact match that I can find. Multiple smirks throughout the sequence, and at least one shot looks very much like it could be the header from the same shot. Possibly.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Was Meg Wylie brought back for that scene and put into Talosian makeup, the full working rig, just for that moment?

No chance in a million. No way they were gonna haul a busy performer back, get in the complex makeup, recreate the background set, and hire the person behind the Keeper from the episode, just to have a few additional seconds.

The answer will always be the most simple: repurposed footage. Like when they used alternate but familiar shots of "The Galileo Seven" in "The Lights of Zetar" and "The Empath" in "Wink of an Eye."

And the only words they had Malachi Throne do for that sequence was "Captain Kirk" and, I think, "Captain Pike." And since he was already on set this would have cost them nothing. The rest was edited from the pilot sound track.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

No chance in a million. No way they were gonna haul a busy performer back, get in the complex makeup, recreate the background set, and hire the person behind the Keeper from the episode, just to have a few additional seconds.

The answer will always be the most simple: repurposed footage. Like when they used alternate but familiar shots of "The Galileo Seven" in "The Lights of Zetar" and "The Empath" in "Wink of an Eye."

And the only words they had Malachi Throne do for that sequence was "Captain Kirk" and, I think, "Captain Pike." And since he was already on set this would have cost them nothing. The rest was edited from the pilot sound track.

Throne would have recorded all of that end dialogue during production for The Menagerie.

 

[Ssosmcin]

If you listen carefully, you can make out the edit. "Captain Pike./ has an illusion, and you have reality." It's swiped from what the Keeper told Pike at the end when Vina was give the Pike illusion.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

If you listen carefully, you can make out the edit. "Captain Pike./ has an illusion, and you have reality." It's swiped from what the Keeper told Pike at the end when Vina was give the Pike illusion.

Yes I get that. I meant that when the Keeper addresses Kirk, all that dialogue is new.

 

[feek61]

The Menagerie Keeper voice was done during the production of Menagerie. If you have the old version of "The Menagerie" with the B & W clips, you can hear Thrones original voice in those B & W clips which is much deeper and significantly different from what we hear in "The Menagerie". The entire voice of the Keeper, including the old and new dialog during Menagerie was a new voice-over and altered electronically which is why the new dialog voice matches exactly (because it was done at the same time as the Menagerie production). They changed the original (Cage) voice because it sounded too much like Thrones actual voice and he was now in the episode.

Since Throne played a second role in "The Menagerie", the Keeper's voice was electronically processed to sound higher-pitched.[4] This modified voice would replace Malachi Throne's original voice work in the remastered and new "Original" versions of "The Cage" released later, and allowed the Keeper to then address Captain Kirk by name at the conclusion of part two when he advised Kirk he was hearing the Keeper's thought transmissions and that the invalid Fleet Captain Pike was welcome to live with them unfettered by his physical body. The Keeper, wishing Kirk a pleasant future, further addresses the captain by name as the illusory fully able-bodied Pike is seen walking with Vina. The preview trailer for Part II uses Throne's original Keeper's voice.

 

[Ssosmcin]

It was his voice in all versions, just pitched up and massaged for the two parter so it didn't sound like Commodore Mendez.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I wonder the production process behind this....

Was Throne cast as Mendez irrespective of his voice as the Keeper?

Or was he cast, and then they realized "oops we need to disguise the Keeper's voice!"

I ponder, as surely if they had realised at the time, pitch-shifting would've be an added production cost however cheap or expensive. Especially during a production they were trying to save money on.

 

[vandevere]

I wonder the production process behind this....

Was Throne cast as Mendez irrespective of his voice as the Keeper?

Or was he cast, and then they realized "oops we need to disguise the Keeper's voice!"

I ponder, as surely if they had realised at the time, pitch-shifting would've be an added production cost however cheap or expensive. Especially during a production they were trying to save money on.

As someone mentioned in an earlier post, they probably hired Malachi Throne as a sort of cost-saving thing, seeing as they had the tech to change the Keeper's voice, and it would be a very easy matter if any additional dialogue was required of the Keeper, to simply have Malachi Throne do the extra dialogue. Sort of paying an actor once for doing two roles...

 

[Therin of Andor]

I wonder the production process behind this....
Was Throne cast as Mendez irrespective of his voice as the Keeper?

IIRC, it was to thank him with an onscreen role for his voice work on the pilot.

 

[scotpens]

For you tech geeks, the device that was used to alter the pitch of Malachi Throne's voice was an Eltro Information Rate Changer.

 

[Captain Parker]

No. All footage shown of the Keeper was from 'The Cage'.