A question about "All Good Things"....

[Kryton]

Having just re-watched part 2 on G4 (missed part 1, but I generally remember it pretty well), I was reminded of the general heart-tug that led to me, at the time, to run off to the bathroom after the end so my wife (at the time) wouldn't see me sobbing for a few seconds over the TV friend I'd come to love quite a lot (at the time).

"You were always welcome" indeed. Deanna's death, the loss of 4 starships, Picard's humility...even though the basic backward-time plot had Brannon Braga's shitstamp all over it, the actors ALL transcended the material for this one.

 

[Hermiod]

For those criticising the time it took for Picard to figure it all out, remember, we as viewers have an advantage. We can see what is going on in each time period clearly. Early in the episode, Picard's memory is, to steal a term from another show, swiss-cheesed every time he jumps through time. This effect becomes less apparent as the episode moves on.

In addition, Future-Picard was not in complete control of his faculties and Past-Picard had to deal with a crew that doubted him and his initial desire not to corrupt the timeline.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

I just finished a re-watch of the series with this episode and had a similar question to the original post that started this thread. I'm a little unsure about who is truly responsible for the 'anomaly' (I think it's funny how that's basically just a big word for 'thing'...I just imagine them using 'thing' instead of 'anomaly' for the whole episode and smile).

Q eventually declares that Picard could be responsible for the end of all of humanity because he ordered a tachyon beam shot into the anomaly, but wasn't that Future Data's idea first? If that's the case, then wouldn't the end of all humanity would be Data's fault?

I suppose you could argue that Data came up with the idea to try to accomplish what Picard wanted accomplished, but it's clearly Dat'a action that is the catalyst for the time/anti-time collision. There's a running joke to emphasize this as past and present Data are befuddled and impressed by present Picard suggesting the tactic based on what Data tells him in the future.

I find this episode doesn't hold up as well as it used to mostly because all the technobabble contributes to it feeling a bit too long and dragged out, but I still love the emotional moments.

Picard and Beverly's kiss after he says, "a lot can happen in twenty-five years" was a beautifully touching moment, and the look on Picard's face as he joins the poker game combined with he and Troi's last words just made me teary for the first time.

 

[C_Miller]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

In the past few years, I've developed a distinct taste in television and Star Trek doesn't really fit any of my other favorite TV shows, other than being in the blanket of Sci-Fi. The story telling in Modern Trek has always been of an earlier time. However, I will say, Star Trek does a superb job at series finales. My #1 critique of most shows is that the series finale is that while it may wrap up the story, it does a horrible job wrapping up the universe, the characters and the show as a whole. Buffy and Harry Potter (while not a show) are perfect examples of this.

But All Good Things put the bookend on TNG. The Poker Scene was a perfect look at how far our characters had come. Picard started off as very gruff and impersonable, but here at the end, he realized that his crew became more to him than just a crew, they were his family. And the whole plot line with Q, essentially picking up where Encounter at Farpoint left off. If Lost never existed, it would be impossible for All Good Things to be beaten by another series finale.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

Was the anomoly growing in both regular time and anti-time

Probably.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

If the "anomaly" was growing larger in the past, that means it was getting smaller in the future.

The Pastur should have arrived just in time to see the anomaly shrink into nothing, in fact, the moment they fire their own tachyon beam should have been the instant when it disappeared completely.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

Q sent Picard two three different time periods that had no effect whatsoever on each other. You can see that when he asks his crew in the present if they remember anything unusual in the Farpoint mission. Nobody in the future remembered that they investigated an anomaly twenty years ago either. That's why in the Pasteur's period there was no anomaly, and why they didn't see it shrink into nothing. Q merely helped Picard understand the problem by sending him to three alternate and independent timelines.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

In the "past" and the "present" when the Enterprise goes to that region, the anomaly is already there, so the anomaly should be already there in the "future" too.

They didn't suddenly have a medium sized anomaly appear in the present after starting the beam in the present, just like the didn't have a large anomaly appear in the past after starting the beam in the past. The anomaly was already there before they beamed it, so it should have already been there in the future too.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

In the "past" and the "present" when the Enterprise goes to that region, the anomaly is already there, so the anomaly should be already there in the "future" too.

They didn't suddenly have a medium sized anomaly appear in the present after starting the beam in the present, just like the didn't have a large anomaly appear in the past after starting the beam in the past. The anomaly was already there before they beamed it, so it should have already been there in the future too.

LOL, no, there's no "should". The future timeline is the cause of the anomaly. You still think that the three timelines are dependant on each other, they are not. No timeline has an effect on the other.

 

[Doug Otte]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

We could interpret Q's statement as meaning that he caused TNG's entire 7-year journey...

Doug

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

We could interpret Q's statement as meaning that he caused TNG's entire 7-year journey...

Doug

Why that?

 

[MNM]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

In the "past" and the "present" when the Enterprise goes to that region, the anomaly is already there, so the anomaly should be already there in the "future" too.

They didn't suddenly have a medium sized anomaly appear in the present after starting the beam in the present, just like the didn't have a large anomaly appear in the past after starting the beam in the past. The anomaly was already there before they beamed it, so it should have already been there in the future too.

LOL, no, there's no "should". The future timeline is the cause of the anomaly. You still think that the three timelines are dependant on each other, they are not. No timeline has an effect on the other.

Yet the anonmaly is said to be growing into the past, the further back you go the larger it gets. And yet when Picard in the future arrives at the place it should be, it isnt there, and only shows up a period of time later, that is complete nonsense. Even if the three timelines arent affecting each other, it should still have been there when they got there and disappeared at the period of time later.

 

[Doug Otte]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

We could interpret Q's statement as meaning that he caused TNG's entire 7-year journey...

Doug

Why that?

I admit that it's highly academic, and is stretching the context quite a bit, but I remember musing on that interpretation when I first saw AGT. It just seemed like Q's line was sufficiently vague to allow a broad interpretation.

I like to take wild symbolic leaps sometimes.

I haven't watched the episode for several years. Maybe if I watched it again I wouldn't think so anymore.

Doug

 

[The Borg Queen]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

In the "past" and the "present" when the Enterprise goes to that region, the anomaly is already there, so the anomaly should be already there in the "future" too.

They didn't suddenly have a medium sized anomaly appear in the present after starting the beam in the present, just like the didn't have a large anomaly appear in the past after starting the beam in the past. The anomaly was already there before they beamed it, so it should have already been there in the future too.

LOL, no, there's no "should". The future timeline is the cause of the anomaly. You still think that the three timelines are dependant on each other, they are not. No timeline has an effect on the other.

With all due respect, you're wrong.

You think in such three-dimensional terms.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

You think in such three-dimensional terms.

Nice quote there, Borg Queen. I don't know how the conversation got here from me asking if Data might be responsible for the anomaly.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

In the "past" and the "present" when the Enterprise goes to that region, the anomaly is already there, so the anomaly should be already there in the "future" too.

They didn't suddenly have a medium sized anomaly appear in the present after starting the beam in the present, just like the didn't have a large anomaly appear in the past after starting the beam in the past. The anomaly was already there before they beamed it, so it should have already been there in the future too.

LOL, no, there's no "should". The future timeline is the cause of the anomaly. You still think that the three timelines are dependant on each other, they are not. No timeline has an effect on the other.

With all due respect, you're wrong.

You think in such three-dimensional terms.

Nopey.

Past timeline: anomaly exists. Picard's actions have no influence on the other timelines (nobody in the present remembers the red alert for instance).

Present timeline: anomaly exists, but smaller. Again Picard's actions have no influence (nobody in the future remembers the Enterprise looking for an anomaly).

Future timeline: that's the starting point of it all, a timeline chosen by Q, in which the anomaly is first created by Picard. The anomaly grows in both directions in time, forward and backward. But Q chose to put Picard in a future where the anomaly hadn't been created yet.

There is no cause and effect between those three timelines, because Picard was not traveling along one timeline. It was just a riddle created by the Q continuum. He was switching between three (artificial) alternate universes.

And in the end, Q brought him back to the actual universe where none of it happened.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

No, the anomaly grows larger in the past, which means in the future, the anomaly is bigger 5 hours before the events that trigger it's creation, slightly smaller than that 4 hours before the events that trigger it's creation, smaller still at 3 hours, and at 2 hours, and a cute little baby anomaly an hour before it's created.

For the Pastur to arrive at the location of the anomaly, and the anomaly to NOT be there before they start scanning for it, is incorrect from both a temporal and logical perspective.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

No, the anomaly grows larger in the past, which means in the future, the anomaly is bigger 5 hours before the events that trigger it's creation, slightly smaller than that 4 hours before the events that trigger it's creation, smaller still at 3 hours, and at 2 hours, and a cute little baby anomaly an hour before it's created.

For the Pastur to arrive at the location of the anomaly, and the anomaly to NOT be there before they start scanning for it, is incorrect from both a temporal and logical perspective.

It's not, as I already said twice. And I like how you totally ignore how Picard could have even done anything if the anomaly already prevented all life on Earth way back in the past. The answer is that the timelines Picard was sent to by Q have no effect on each other, and there is no reason at all why there would have to be an anomaly in the future timeline. It's no goof.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

You really don't understand, do you?

Damn, sometimes I wish every forum was TNZ.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: A question about "All Good Things"....

Well I just watched this episode, marking the end of my re-watching of TNG these past couple of months.

I had a quick question regarding 2nd half of the ep. In the end, Picard thanks Q for helping him (btw, thanks to all of you who mentioned that the syndication run cut out this and other scenes).

Q replies "I'm the one who got you into it. It was a directive from the contiunum"

I am a little confused. Into what? Is he referring to the trial or is he referring to the anamoly?

I don't think the syndication cut out this scene as it's part of the ending scene. The syndication cut DOES cut out a scene between Picard and Q in the Pasteur ready-room and I believe a scene on the Enterprise-D(readnought) where Picard needs a Yellow-Shirt in the corridor to tell him how to get to 10-Fwd (because, you see the future ship completely re-arranged the lay out and numbering system of the decks.)

There may have been another scene but I'm fairly certain in the syndication cut the final scene between Q and Picard is whole. But, granted, I have not seen the syndicated version of AGT in ages.

....

On the subject of how the on the Enterprise could see the beginning stages of the anomaly when by the episode's own logic it shouldn't exist after it was made I figured the reason they could see it was because it took some time for the time/anti-time ratio to get to a point where there was more "anti-time" than "time" at which point it began to grow larger in the past.

That's to say it had to grow into the "future" a bit before it could start to grow into the past (and thus shrink into the future.) Think of it as an explosion going off, displacing all of the air inside it's radius, and the shock-wave pushes everything around the explosion out then when the fire of the explosion is gone everything then gets pulled back towards the "center" of the explosion by the newly incoming rush of air to fill the void.