A mile deep

[Wingsley]

Commander Hanson told Kirk that Outpost 4 was "a mile deep in an asteroid made of almost solid iron" (not sure of the exact quote).

On Janus IV, the pergium mining operation was not as efficient as the Horta at making tunnels, but everything in their operation appeared to be deep underground... including their quarters.

Tantalus V penal colony appeared to be almost entirely underground; "Devil's Island" seemed to be a subterranean city.

All this suggests that the TOS-era Federation was good at building underground complexes. So good, that they had apparently been doing it for generations. Kirk and Spock seemed to indicate that Earth Outposts along the neutral zone were established as a result of the Earth-Romulan conflict of a century before.

Does all of this indicate that Earth/the Federation are expert at creating subterranean colonies?

Does all of this at least suggest that Earth had been doing this kind of thing for at least 100 years prior to TOS?

Are there any clues as to what technology they use to create these installations?

 

[Dayton3]

Constructing underground facilities is no trick even today.

 

[JNG]

If phasers can actually "disrupt" material, pushing it out of the continuum somehow so you don't have to worry about superheated vapor or dust and so forth, I imagine that proper phaser equipment would make tunneling a relatively easy thing (thought it's possible the energy cost would be prohibitive in many instances).

I imagine there are asteroid starbase facilities.

 

[UssGlenn]

We do have to take into account the fact that it took the Starfleet Corps of Engineers months (how many I can't remember) to make the small facility in the Regula asteroid, before the Genesis devise was used.

 

[Tigger]

It is possible they only had a small team working on it, however.

For "the big stuff" there is probably more resources put to the program which results in quicker production.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Gene Roddenberry stated in his various Phase II/TMP scripts and production notes that the vast majority of 23rd century Earth-dwellers prefer to reside in "Subterra Cities" that leave the surrounding naturescape untouched. Only the actual habitats are on the surface, while the transportation, manufacturing and storage infrastructure (i.e., "clutter" - GR's ST:TMP novelization) is placed underground. Aesthetic and ecological preservation reasons aside, such an urban design paradigm would also come in rather handy during the occasional orbital bombardment.

TGT

 

[Wingsley]

Since the Genesis Project was highly classified, it is possible that the Federation "sea bees" were limited to a very small crew, thus causing them to take longer. It is possible that they didn't use really big, industrial-strength equipment for the same reason.

 

[Timo]

It is also possible that Regula was an unusually brittle asteroid, difficult to work with - but she was the only one available in the clandestine location where the Genesis experiments were slated to take place.

Deep drilling does seem to be easy and practicable in the 23rd and 24th centuries. ST:NEM also shows a cool-looking deep shaft going into the supposedly unstable crust of Remus, so possibly our heroes and villains have mastered other related technologies besides the art of making the holes. Underground construction certainly appears possible and viable.

And while we have seen many small agriculturally oriented colonies that consist of simple shacks on the surface, the more established colony of Turkana IV in "Legacy" burrowed quite deep into that planet, and wasn't considered particularly exceptional by our heroes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wingsley]

Does anyone here think that the Tokra tunnel crystals of STARGATE SG-1 could be part of the STAR TREK Universe, at least conceptually, or that Earth/Federation builders use other means of underground construction?

 

[Basill]

I always thought the Tok'Ra were considerably more advanced (in that department anyway) than even Starfleet, which still relied on more conventional means for most of its architecture and such. The Tok'Ra tunnels are just a hair's breadth away from Kryptonian crystal technology from the Donner Superman movie.

 

[FordSVT]

They drilled through many kilometres of solid rock in just a few moments in the TNG episode "A Matter of Time", and that Voyager episode where they got stuck underground in the shuttle after an accident featured the crew using portable phaser drilling equipment that bored through many tons of rock rather quickly. I'd say drilling holes in rock is the easy part; making sure it's structurally sound, and building an underground infrastructure and facilities are what would take the most time.

 

[dru]

We do have to take into account the fact that it took the Starfleet Corps of Engineers months (how many I can't remember) to make the small facility in the Regula asteroid, before the Genesis devise was used.

I recall "it took the Starfleet Corp of Engineers six months in space suits" to tunnel it.

 

[Timo]

Nope: that much detail can only be found in the earlier version of script that is available through TrekCore - the one that has all the bits about Saavik being half-Romulan and all. There's no mention of space suits in the final dialogue of the movie, or of "tunneling" specifically.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anticitizen]

Timo, I never read any TWOK scripts, but I distinctly remember the line about space suits as well.

But can't they really just use transporters to beam all the material out into space, leaving caverns behind?

 

[UssGlenn]

Well, we know transporters can reach the location, but we don't know about the stability of a cavern resulting from excavation in that manner. Could be the only way to make a stable cave is to do it the "old-fashioned way" (relatively speaking).

 

[Blip]

Nope: that much detail can only be found in the earlier version of script that is available through TrekCore - the one that has all the bits about Saavik being half-Romulan and all. There's no mention of space suits in the final dialogue of the movie, or of "tunneling" specifically.

Timo Saloniemi

dru is correct - although it was actually ten months.

 

[Timo]

It is in the theatrical version? Damn! And sorry.

Hmm... Perhaps it wasn't in the Finnish subtitles; TWoK is the first bit of Trek I ever saw, and many of my memories are colored by the early viewings.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. B]

They would probably have phaser variations of the tunnel boring machines we use today. Even if they didn't have the means to remove the matter from the continuum as the vaporize setting allows, some cargo transporters would make simple work of removing material.

 

[Timo]

...Although transporters have some trouble working through thick rock, both in ST2 and elsewhere in Trek. And even if the phaser makes the target disappear without leaving residual vapors or anything, it may create some sort of waste heat that will become a problem once one runs a phaser for several hours straight.

So it does sound quite plausible that it would take months to hollow out a cavern that meets certain dimensional specs and needs to be made airtight and secured against collapse. Especially if the cavern also has to be equipped with a massive life support system, which I assume would be required for the Genesis application. Sure, Genesis could create a jungle in there - but to keep the jungle alive, one might need a shipful or two of finest Starfleet machinery.

Timo Saloniemi