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A Lit-verse based TOS chronology

Are we really locked into the Okuda dates? I mean, there's enough corroboration of the odd 2285 dating for TWOK that we're stuck with that, but I don't think TFF's Okudachron date is that heavily reinforced elsewhere. Personally I put TFF in '86, I think. I'm not aware of anything that unavoidably conflicts with that.
 
DC Volume 1 has some links to the Original Lit-verse, so that's why I even mention it here. As far as continuity goes, taken as a whole they could be a major stretch to fit. The first 8 issues aren't any more outrageous than alot of the other Original Lit-verse novels as far as being in continuity goes. The fact that there are adventures between STII and STIII is the most problematic for me, but ignoring that, the events themselves I have no major problem with. I really like the characters introduced here as well, and we follow them in the comics for several years. Having these extra adventures also helps cover some time so that the TOS movies can take place from Kirk's birthday 2285 all the way to STV in 2287. If hard pressed, I'd say I would have these eight issues in my personal continuity.

Allowing those eight issues to exist lets STIII more easily take place 7-9 months after STII, allowing STIV to take place 3 months later in 2286. (Although in the DC continuity STIV only has to take place 3 months after another 28 issues.)
I've mentioned this around here before, but I've always suspected that the Okudachron dates for ST II-V were spaced out as they were to accommodate additional stories in that era if one were so inclined. They're not canon, obviously, but this allows you to include them if you want (which I do, for a lot of the comics) and not worry about it too much if you don't.

The rest of DC comics Volume 1 run takes place between STIV and V showing the first missions of the Enterprise-A. This also helps stretch out the time claimed to take place between ST II and ST V. I would accept these in my personal continuity along with the first 8 issues.
Except for "Choices," I've always thought of these as taking place in a timeframe after ST V, because (I guess) I still don't like thinking of there being a tonne of additional Enterprise-A adventures between IV and V.

Regarding Debt of Honor, the majority of references within the story seem to place it late in 2289, with Spock mentioning that he and McCoy first served together under Kirk's command "twenty-five years, one hundred seventeen days, [and] three hours" ago (around 2264, during the events of Enterprise: The First Adventure), and the implication is that it's right before Sulu takes command of the Excelsior (plus the presence of the pre-Albino vaccine Kor and Stephen Garrovick, who was rescued from the Pao'la prison facility in 2287).

There is, from what I can remember, one quick reference to Gracie's humpback infant being "the first humpback born [in 300 years] on Earth" (or words to that effect), which is about the only real possible reference to an immediate post-TVH timeframe (humpback whales having a 12-15 month gestation period), but this is pretty much outnumbered by all the other references pointing to several years post-TVH.

It's definitely not a cleanly-set story, to be sure, and appears to follow the early-'90s continuity assumption that Star Trek V immediately followed Star Trek IV by only a few weeks, but again, whether one prefers one placement or another, something probably has to get "fudged" in the end, continuity-wise, there.
Since this came out concurrently with DC Volume 2, it never felt like it needed "fudging" to me--I just assumed it took place in between issues on the ongoing comic, which were all set after ST V.

I share in the hope that stories like The Rift get included, though...another story that (being written by Peter David, onetime writer of the comic) felt like it would take place in between those stories.
 
I've mentioned this around here before, but I've always suspected that the Okudachron dates for ST II-V were spaced out as they were to accommodate additional stories in that era if one were so inclined. They're not canon, obviously, but this allows you to include them if you want (which I do, for a lot of the comics) and not worry about it too much if you don't.
From what I remember, the 2286 dating of Star Trek IV was apparently derived from the original TNG bible or something, with possibly the Okudas or the series producers (or both) either counting forward exactly 300 years from the movie's release date (1986/2286), and then applying Roddenberry's "78 years later" timestamp to TNG season one, or else the other way around, with the "2364" date mentioned by Data in "The Neutral Zone" forming the basis for the 2286 positioning (2364-78 = 2286).

Plus there's the onscreen dialogue in TNG's season three premiere "Evolution," mentioning that the last system-wide failures aboard a starship occurred "79 years ago," which seems to be an obvious nod/reference to the then-recently-theatrically-released Star Trek V from just a few months earlier that summer, giving us a canonical datestamp of 2287 for that movie (2366-79 = 2287).

It's the 2285 dating of The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock that seems to be a bit more arbitrary (outright ignoring both of the "fifteen years" dialogue-references in the second film), although to be sure, there is the "2283" onscreen mention (regarding Romulan ale fermentation) which seems to provide something of a potential canonical bottom-floor for the whole thing, at least.

(Vornholt's The Genesis Wave isn't the only story dating the events of Star Trek IV back into 2285, contrary to the Okuda chronology -- the Spock and McCoy volumes of David George III's Crucible trilogy also use a 2285 dating for the fourth movie's events. These two series both appear to be uncommon outliers, though.)


Except for "Choices," I've always thought of these as taking place in a timeframe after ST V, because (I guess) I still don't like thinking of there being a tonne of additional Enterprise-A adventures between IV and V.
There actually truly aren't that many Kirk-stories set during 2286 at all, and only two novels in total (the Enterprise-A sections of Unspoken Truth, and Timetrap, in my own continuity), plus "Scotty's Song" from SNW.

Pretty much all of the DC Vol. 1 stories set post-TVH (including the "Retrospect" annual) I tend to place prior to the 2287 framing-story sections of To Reign in Hell (Greg Cox's third Khan novel) due to that wraparound's immediate pre-TFF setting, and the implication that the 1701-A had finally finished up its shakedown missions from the preceding year.

The great thing is, between the DC Vol. 1 stories and the scant couple of prose tales we have onhand, there are roughly just enough stories there to decently fill out that initial shakedown-year prior to the fifth movie...but yet not too many, either. It's pretty well-balanced, all things considered.


Since this came out concurrently with DC Volume 2, it never felt like it needed "fudging" to me--I just assumed it took place in between issues on the ongoing comic, which were all set after ST V.
Indeed, plus there's the whole Stephen Garrovick-factor present, which pushes the graphic novel to absolutely no earlier than 2287, post-TFF, if one counts In the Name of Honor in their personal continuity.

Plus there's also Spock's remarkably-specific dialogue ("Twenty-five years, one hundred seventeen days") regarding his and McCoy's first service together aboard the Enterprise in the graphic novel, which moves the story back even further to 2289, if one counts Enterprise: The First Adventure there and retroactively applies the dialogue within the modern Okudachron-context (it also being implied that Sulu's captaincy-promotion was extremely close at hand).

Due to the lack of Kor's forehead-ridges and Sulu's rank, Debt of Honor can't take place any later than, say, October/early November of 2289, though, and prior to Excelsior: Forged in Fire.

It's those pesky early-'90s continuity assumptions which come into play a tiny bit here, regarding Gracie's calf, but again, this one little aspect seems be overshadowed by the preponderance of other dating-cues present in the story which vastly outnumber it. It's pretty easily ignorable if one chooses.


I share in the hope that stories like The Rift get included, though...another story that (being written by Peter David, onetime writer of the comic) felt like it would take place in between those stories.
Same here, and I imagine it likely will, considering that a number of later, modern Litverse tales reference it (including Margaret Wander Bonanno's Burning Dreams).

You bring up another interesting subject here, concerning the placement of The Rift with regards to the DC Vol. 2 run of stories (specifically, the post-TFF relaunch) -- from approximately issue #1 all the way up through issue #12 (the conclusion of the "Trial of James T. Kirk" storyline), there really isn't any storyline-room to speak of in which to slot in both Probe and The Rift, continuity-wise, unless one were to place them not long post-Star Trek V, prior to the DC relaunch.

The roughly four or five major storylines comprising those dozen issues all take place contiguously with one another, sharing carried-over plot threads and supporting characters that are crucial to the flow of that run, and it's finally only in issue #12 (the ending of the trial storyline) that the first real "break" appears that might allow one to place other standalone tales deeper into 2287 (which is where VotI places Probe and The Rift).

Of course, again, it might also be possible to place these stories before the DC relaunch, in between In the Name of Honor and "The Return!" (DC Vol. 2, issue #1), but I've never really had a problem with VotI's placement of those (although again, there are a couple of those early-'90s continuity bugaboos in Probe that don't quite jibe with the Okudachron).

That said, it's the hard, concrete Star Trek V references in that novel which pretty conclusively date it following the events of the fifth movie, and one kinda just has to willfully ignore the other inconsistencies (which were, as Christopher mentioned, an unfortunate artifact of multiple authors and multiple rewrites).
 
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While I enjoy the old DC Star Trek comics, especially the 'Mirror Universe Saga', to me there's just not enough evidence to support that big of a gap between movies. While there are some nitpick's in the Okuda's Chronology that I can work around, I disagree with the placement of TWok, TSfS and TVH being spread out over 2285-2287. I agree with Christopher in that the the trilogy takes place within a single calendar year, 2285.
The only real gap I see is in 'The Voyage Home' after the Bounty crashes into San Francisco bay and after the trial. We don't know how long after the crash the trial takes place. I don't agree with Vornholt on the August 7, 2285 date in the Genesis Wave. I think that's far too early. The novel of TVH implies only about a week passes between Kirk's return and the trial. I think it's closer to 6-8 weeks. Earth has to have time to recover from the probe, there has to be some kind of debriefing, Gillian Taylor has to find the time to get acclimated to the 23rd Century as well as the status of the Enterprise-A. There could be some time after the trial where Kirk and co. are sitting around waiting for the Enterprise-A to be readied for them.
Then there's how much time passes between the end of TVH and the beginning of TFF. Christopher has mentioned in other posts that Harve Bennett said there was a six month gap where the Enterprise-A was on a shakedown cruise. I can agree with that and that puts TFF in a vague early to mid-2286.
I would also like to point out that I've been thinking about the 'New Earth' series and there are some serious chronological issues if it's to be included in the chronology. If anything it has to be moved from it's position in 2278-2280. To quickly summarize - The Captain's Meeting in Chapter 10 takes place on October 31, 2272, (corrected to October 31, 2278 in VOTI) before the launch of the mission. In Chapter 5 one of the characters says that the expedition will take 9 months there, 6 months back. That's 15 months round trip, not counting for time the Enterprise spends at Belle Terre helping set up and defend the colony. That means the earliest the Enterprise can return to Federation space if the expedition launched in November 2278 is January 2280.
Christopher's novella 'Mere Anarchy Part 2 - The Darkness Drops Again' is set in November 2279, which is when the Enterprise would be returning from the Belle Terre mission if it was round trip.
The solution, as I see it, would be to move the Captain's Meeting to October 31, 2279, have 'Mere Anarchy' take place in November 2279 as per Christopher's historian's note, then have the Belle Terre mission launch in December of 2279 with the Enterprise returning in late 2281 just before 'The Pandora Principle'.
I'll have to look at my 'New Earth' notes later tonight to further clarify the placement of the novels.
 
Plus there's the onscreen dialogue in TNG's season three premiere "Evolution," mentioning that the last system-wide failures aboard a starship occurred "79 years ago," which seems to be an obvious nod/reference to the then-recently-theatrically-released Star Trek V from just a few months earlier that summer, giving us a canonical datestamp of 2287 for that movie (2366-79 = 2287)

Given a few months rounding, that could still put the film in 86 or 87, assuming you accept that STV was the event being referred to there (which I admit was the intent).

(Vornholt's The Genesis Wave isn't the only story dating the events of Star Trek IV back into 2285, contrary to the Okuda chronology -- the Spock and McCoy volumes of David George III's Crucible trilogy also uses a 2285 dating for the fourth movie's events. These two series both appear to be uncommon outliers, though.)
Interesting. I didn't realize that either.

Indeed, plus there's the whole Stephen Garrovick-factor present, which pushes the graphic novel to absolutely no earlier than 2287, post-TFF, if one counts In the Name of Honor in their personal continuity.

Plus there's also Spock's remarkably-specific dialogue ("Twenty-five years, one hundred seventeen days") regarding his and McCoy's first service together aboard the Enterprise in the graphic novel, which moves the story back even further to 2289, if one counts Enterprise: The First Adventure there and retroactively applies the dialogue within the modern Okudachron-context (it also being implied that Sulu's captaincy-promotion was extremely close at hand).

Due to the lack of Kor's forehead-ridges and Sulu's rank, Debt of Honor can't take place any later than, say, October/early November of 2289, though, and prior to Excelsior: Forged in Fire.

It's those pesky early-'90s continuity assumptions which come into play a tiny bit here, regarding Gracie's calf, but again, this one little aspect seems be overshadowed by the preponderance of other dating-cues present in the story which vastly outnumber it. It's pretty easily ignorable if one chooses.
My problem with Debt of Honor being to long after TVH is that the way I read it, the ship was still waiting to be given a mission and active status following it's launch. Kirk is still down in the dumps over the events of loosing his son and the original Enterprise, and Gracie is still pregnant. Steven Garrovik being there is the only problem, but I found it preposterous that the officers that served with Kirk who came back in his time of need were all the ones we were familiar with and none others anyway. So ignoring his presence doesn't bother me.

I also didn't interpret Sulu's story as implying that he was immediately going off to captain the Excelsior. Though glancing back through it right now I can't even find the relevant sections.

While I enjoy the old DC Star Trek comics, especially the 'Mirror Universe Saga', to me there's just not enough evidence to support that big of a gap between movies. While there are some nitpick's in the Okuda's Chronology that I can work around, I disagree with the placement of TWok, TSfS and TVH being spread out over 2285-2287. I agree with Christopher in that the the trilogy takes place within a single calendar year, 2285.
The only real gap I see is in 'The Voyage Home' after the Bounty crashes into San Francisco bay and after the trial. We don't know how long after the crash the trial takes place. I don't agree with Vornholt on the August 7, 2285 date in the Genesis Wave. I think that's far too early. The novel of TVH implies only about a week passes between Kirk's return and the trial. I think it's closer to 6-8 weeks. Earth has to have time to recover from the probe, there has to be some kind of debriefing, Gillian Taylor has to find the time to get acclimated to the 23rd Century as well as the status of the Enterprise-A. There could be some time after the trial where Kirk and co. are sitting around waiting for the Enterprise-A to be readied for them.

I agree that the Genesis Wave dates are just too close together. I wouldn't mind something that disagreed with the Okuda dates, but I still want some breathing room.

I would also like to point out that I've been thinking about the 'New Earth' series and there are some serious chronological issues if it's to be included in the chronology. If anything it has to be moved from it's position in 2278-2280. To quickly summarize - The Captain's Meeting in Chapter 10 takes place on October 31, 2272, (corrected to October 31, 2278 in VOTI) before the launch of the mission. In Chapter 5 one of the characters says that the expedition will take 9 months there, 6 months back. That's 15 months round trip, not counting for time the Enterprise spends at Belle Terre helping set up and defend the colony. That means the earliest the Enterprise can return to Federation space if the expedition launched in November 2278 is January 2280.
Christopher's novella 'Mere Anarchy Part 2 - The Darkness Drops Again' is set in November 2279, which is when the Enterprise would be returning from the Belle Terre mission if it was round trip.
The solution, as I see it, would be to move the Captain's Meeting to October 31, 2279, have 'Mere Anarchy' take place in November 2279 as per Christopher's historian's note, then have the Belle Terre mission launch in December of 2279 with the Enterprise returning in late 2281 just before 'The Pandora Principle'.
I'll have to look at my 'New Earth' notes later tonight to further clarify the placement of the novels.
I look forward to whatever more you find about this, and what others might think. I've never read the New Earth books, so I don't have much to add, but I'm open to going along with moving them if the evidence points in that direction.

Edit to add...

As far as the date of TFF goes, since To Reign in Hell is set in 87, TFF can't be in 86 without ignoring that date. I suppose early 87 would be best. If I start with March 85 for TWOK, and push TSFS 9 months later into December, that would push TVH as far into 86 as possible while still being 3 months afterwards. So stretching that to early April 86 for TVH, with the actual start of the 6 month shakedown cruise in May. Then perhaps TFF in January after a few months refit time. Whether the weather in Yellowstone fits with January is a good question.

That was me just running through my thinking on all the films and trying to figure out exactly what I'm hypothesizing here. I hope it's at least self consistent.
 
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As far as the date of TFF goes, since To Reign in Hell is set in 87, TFF can't be in 86 without ignoring that date. I suppose early 87 would be best. If I start with March 85 for TWOK, and push TSFS 9 months later into December, that would push TVH as far into 86 as possible while still being 3 months afterwards. So stretching that to early April 86 for TVH, with the actual start of the 6 month shakedown cruise in May. Then perhaps TFF in January after a few months refit time. Whether the weather in Yellowstone fits with January is a good question.
(You probably meant "Yosemite," there, right? ;) :techman: And that's a very good point, re: the weather, and something I hadn't really considered before.)

January 2287 is right where I have TFF placed too, and it actually jibes with TNG "Evolution," since that episode is apparently set in January 2366. If we assume that Data is being as precise and detail-oriented as usual in that dialogue-scene, then it would have been exactly 79 years right to the month (or possibly even to the week, depending).

And the rest of that pre-TVH timeline is very similar to mine, with a number of months elapsing between TWoK and TSFS (the first eight issues of the first DC volume being in my personal continuity), and I roughly had Star Trek IV as taking place circa March 2286, but an early April date could work fine, too.

There certainly appears to be a bit of time between the final scene of The Voyage Home and "Choices" (DC Vol. 1, issue #37), with the Enterprise-A returning to Spacedock after what appears to be a quick warp-jump out and back again in the film's conclusion, and then the "official" shakedown cruise beginning some time later, possibly starting with Timetrap and leading directly into the DC #39-40 storyline and onward from there (Harry Mudd, etc.).

If we assume a minimum of six months (and perhaps a couple months more, give or take), this takes us right up to January 2287, with the Enterprise-A back in Spacedock over Earth getting some fairly massive overhauls (not to mention a new bridge). According to the fifth movie, the starship has been there for at least three weeks, if not longer ("You promised me you could have the ship operational in two weeks; I gave you three. What happened?"), so if we take TNG into account, the movie could be set up as far as late January 2287.

Also, I need to go back and check, here, but isn't the Spacedock-time described by Greg Cox in To Reign in Hell supposed correspond to the same drydock-time seen in the film, just a couple of weeks earlier into it? Kirk and his command crew take their journey back to Ceti Alpha V aboard the courier ship, but I can't recall right off the top of my head how long that trip lasted exactly before their return to Earth.

If it is the same Spacedock-window, then most of them split off for planetside shore leave afterward (except for Scott and Uhura) as we see in the movie. Of course, I could be totally misremembering this, too.


That was me just running through my thinking on all the films and trying to figure out exactly what I'm hypothesizing here. I hope it's at least self consistent.
And hey, at least the movie era isn't nearly as maddening to keep track of as the 5YM era, right? :D
 
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It's actually turning out to be more complex than I thought it would be, but yes still alot simpler than TOS.
 
Interesting, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the system wide ship failure that Data was referring to was a reference to the Excelsior in The Search for Spock. And Ryan don't worry about not having read the New Earth series. I read them when they first were available at my local library and I still ended up feeling like I spent too much money on them.
 
And the rest of that pre-TVH timeline is very similar to mine, with a number of months elapsing between TWoK and TSFS (the first eight issues of the first DC volume being in my personal continuity)

I'm curious how you work that out, considering that the second issue features the death of Koloth, and that both Koloth and Kor are portrayed as having ridges in the 2280s. Do you just assume they're namesakes, or what?
 
Is there a complete list of all star Trek books in chronological order? I now we have incomplete lists. But is one complete?
 
Ryan here’s a quick timeline I did last night/this morning when I came home from work on my thoughts on the ‘New Earth’ series and its placement in the timeline.

2278
OCTOBER – 2278
October 31, 2278
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 10 – The Captain’s Meeting

DECEMBER – 2278
December 1, 2278
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 5 – Note: 3 months earlier, just before the launch of the Belle Terre mission. ‘9 months there, 6 months back’.

2279
C. MARCH – 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 1-4, 6-9, 11 – Note: 4½ months since the expedition launched.

APRIL – 2279
April 11, 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 12 – Note: 5 months, 11 days, 16 hours since the expedition launched if the expedition launched on December 1, 2278.

April 27, 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 13-18 – Note: 16 days later. VOTI places these Chapters in 'April'.

C. MAY/JUNE – 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 19 – Note: ‘Weeks’ later.

C. JULY – 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 20-25 – Note: The next day. According to VOTI the Belle Terre expedition arrives at its destination in ‘July’.

C. LATE JULY/EARLY AUGUST – 2279
New Earth: Belle Terre – Note: Spans 12 days. Various characters say they arrived ‘2-4 weeks’ ago. I take that to mean the expedition arrived in orbit 4 weeks ago, spent two weeks scanning the planet for a suitable landing site and two weeks setting up the colony.

C. LATE SEPTEMBER/EARLY OCTOBER – 2279
New Earth: Rough Trails – Chapters 1-17 – Note: Again various characters say it’s been 6 weeks/2 months after 'Belle Terre' and runs approximately 4-5 days. It concludes 2-3 months later when Chekov’s transport is due to arrive.

DECEMBER – 2279
New Earth: Rough Trails – Chapter 18 – Note: 6 weeks later. VOTI places these events in 'December'; Chekov’s transport is due to arrive in a few days to take him to the Reliant.

2280
C. MARCH (JUNE?) – 2280
New Earth: The Flaming Arrow – Note: In Chapter 1 Kirk thinks to himself that Chekov has been gone 3 months and that they’ve been defending the colony for ‘nearly a year’. If Chekov left 3 months ago it’s sometime in March. If it’s ‘nearly a year’, then it’s closer to June. One possible explanation is that Kirk is rounding up and it’s closer to 9-10 months, so that fits a March date.

C. JUNE (SEPTEMBER?) – 2280
New Earth: Thin Air – Note: At one point Spock says it’s been ‘3 months, 6 days’ since the events of ‘The Flaming Arrow’. Again if it’s three months since March, it’s sometime in June. If it has been ‘nearly a year’ in ‘The Flaming Arrow’ and it is three months after that, then it’s September. The earlier date is preferred.

New Earth: Challenger – This one was hard to pin down because I far as I could figure, there were no references to the previous four stories in the series. It took me 2-3 times reading it to figure out what was happening, and even that is a guess at best.
Chapters 1, 3, 5, 7-8, 10 are set in an undetermined point in the ‘past’ during the starship Peleliu’s outward bound journey to Belle Terre. My notes say 6 months and 3 months; so that could mean the ship left 6 months ago and there are three months left; or that certain chapters are set 6 months ago and others are three months later. It was all very confusing.
Chapters 2, 4, 6, 9, 11-12 are set in the ‘present’ onboard the Enterprise and the Belle Terre colony. They are awaiting the arrival of the Peleliu to relieve the Enterprise.
Chapters 12-24, Epilogue – The Peleliu arrives and the chapters sync up for the rest of the story. Chapter 15 is set two days after Chapters 12-14 and Chapter 20 is set 16+ days after Chapters 15-19 during which time the Peleliu is rebuilt and renamed ‘Challenger’.

Gateways: Challenger and Gateways: Chainmail are set one month after the end of New Earth: Challenger.

As you can see there is no point in the series where Christopher’s ‘Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again’ which is set in November 2279, could be slotted as it would fall between chapters of ‘Rough Trails’.
Interestingly enough, in my notes on ‘New Earth’ there is a notation on ‘The Pandora Principle’ which says ‘FASA date – August 10, 2218’. I checked my FASA Guide to the Federation and sure enough there’s a date for Saavik’s admission to Starfleet Academy. A transposition of the numbers changes the date to August 10, 2281 which could be a possible date for placement in the timeline. I think what I was trying to do at the time was find the earliest possible date the Enterprise could return from the Belle Terre mission and not mess up the placement of ‘The Pandora Principle’.
So a possible solution is to move the ‘New Earth’ series up a year to October 31, 2279, have ‘Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again’ in November 2279, the Belle Terre expedition launch in December 2279 and have it run through June 2281 and the Enterprise returning in time for ‘The Pandora Principle’.
What does everybody think?
 
Plus there's the onscreen dialogue in TNG's season three premiere "Evolution," mentioning that the last system-wide failures aboard a starship occurred "79 years ago," which seems to be an obvious nod/reference to the then-recently-theatrically-released Star Trek V from just a few months earlier that summer, giving us a canonical datestamp of 2287 for that movie (2366-79 = 2287).
I don't put too much weight on the "Evolution" reference because it's fairly generic and not all that applicable (IMO). Were the issues aboard either the Excelsior or the Enterprise-A really "system-wide failures?" By that standard, the Enterprise-D had just recently dealt with one itself in "Contagion."

It's the 2285 dating of The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock that seems to be a bit more arbitrary (outright ignoring both of the "fifteen years" dialogue-references in the second film), although to be sure, there is the "2283" onscreen mention (regarding Romulan ale fermentation) which seems to provide something of a potential canonical bottom-floor for the whole thing, at least.
When I was first exposed to the 2285 date (via the ST:TNG Technical Manual), I took that to mean the first season of TOS occurred in 2270 and worked from there. After the Okudachron came out and showed that that wasn't the assumption at all, I grew annoyed at their TOS dates (and remain so to this day, because that choice was even more arbitrary), but too much of the canon and the tie-ins have now gone with this. :/

Except for "Choices," I've always thought of these as taking place in a timeframe after ST V, because (I guess) I still don't like thinking of there being a tonne of additional Enterprise-A adventures between IV and V.
There actually truly aren't that many Kirk-stories set during 2286 at all, and only two novels in total (the Enterprise-A sections of Unspoken Truth, and Timetrap, in my own continuity), plus "Scotty's Song" from SNW.

Pretty much all of the DC Vol. 1 stories set post-TVH (including the "Retrospect" annual) I tend to place prior to the 2287 framing-story sections of To Reign in Hell (Greg Cox's third Khan novel) due to that wraparound's immediate pre-TFF setting, and the implication that the 1701-A had finally finished up its shakedown missions from the preceding year.

The great thing is, between the DC Vol. 1 stories and the scant couple of prose tales we have onhand, there are roughly just enough stories there to decently fill out that initial shakedown-year prior to the fifth movie...but yet not too many, either. It's pretty well-balanced, all things considered.
I think of that many stories as "a tonne."

I'm very reluctant to put any "ordinary" Enterprise-A missions with a fully-functioning ship and crew between ST IV and V. I wouldn't even put Timetrap there, preferring to push it further into the ST V-VI period.

Since this came out concurrently with DC Volume 2, it never felt like it needed "fudging" to me--I just assumed it took place in between issues of the ongoing comic, which were all set after ST V.
Indeed, plus there's the whole Stephen Garrovick-factor present, which pushes the graphic novel to absolutely no earlier than 2287, post-TFF, if one counts In the Name of Honor in their personal continuity.

Plus there's also Spock's remarkably-specific dialogue ("Twenty-five years, one hundred seventeen days") regarding his and McCoy's first service together aboard the Enterprise in the graphic novel, which moves the story back even further to 2289, if one counts Enterprise: The First Adventure there and retroactively applies the dialogue within the modern Okudachron-context (it also being implied that Sulu's captaincy-promotion was extremely close at hand).

Due to the lack of Kor's forehead-ridges and Sulu's rank, Debt of Honor can't take place any later than, say, October/early November of 2289, though, and prior to Excelsior: Forged in Fire.

It's those pesky early-'90s continuity assumptions which come into play a tiny bit here, regarding Gracie's calf, but again, this one little aspect seems be overshadowed by the preponderance of other dating-cues present in the story which vastly outnumber it. It's pretty easily ignorable if one chooses.

I share in the hope that stories like The Rift get included, though...another story that (being written by Peter David, onetime writer of the comic) felt like it would take place in between those stories.
Same here, and I imagine it likely will, considering that a number of later, modern Litverse tales reference it (including Margaret Wander Bonanno's Burning Dreams).

You bring up another interesting subject here, concerning the placement of The Rift with regards to the DC Vol. 2 run of stories (specifically, the post-TFF relaunch) -- from approximately issue #1 all the way up through issue #12 (the conclusion of the "Trial of James T. Kirk" storyline), there really isn't any storyline-room to speak of in which to slot in both Probe and The Rift, continuity-wise, unless one were to place them not long post-Star Trek V, prior to the DC relaunch.

The roughly four or five major storylines comprising those dozen issues all take place contiguously with one another, sharing carried-over plot threads and supporting characters that are crucial to the flow of that run, and it's finally only in issue #12 (the ending of the trial storyline) that the first real "break" appears that might allow one to place other standalone tales deeper into 2287 (which is where VotI places Probe and The Rift).

Of course, again, it might also be possible to place these stories before the DC relaunch, in between In the Name of Honor and "The Return!" (DC Vol. 2, issue #1), but I've never really had a problem with VotI's placement of those (although again, there are a couple of those early-'90s continuity bugaboos in Probe that don't quite jibe with the Okudachron).

That said, it's the hard, concrete Star Trek V references in that novel which pretty conclusively date it following the events of the fifth movie, and one kinda just has to willfully ignore the other inconsistencies (which were, as Christopher mentioned, an unfortunate artifact of multiple authors and multiple rewrites).
Back in the day, that TOS assumption I mentioned made placing The Rift easy--I had "The Cage" in 2257, so The Rift was at some point in 2290, before Sulu left.

Nowadays, with a different set of assumptions, I'd have to reread the comics and figure out where gaps could go to accommodate the various novels which share that timeframe.
 
Then perhaps TFF in January after a few months refit time. Whether the weather in Yellowstone fits with January is a good question.

Climate change.

Well, Sulu and Chekov did try convincing Uhura they were caught in a blizzard.

--Sran

TFF in January is now canon. :guffaw:
(You probably meant "Yosemite," there, right? ;) :techman: And that's a very good point, re: the weather, and something I hadn't really considered before.)

Oops. At least I didn't call it Jellystone. :rommie:

January 2287 is right where I have TFF placed too, and it actually jibes with TNG "Evolution," since that episode is apparently set in January 2366. If we assume that Data is being as precise and detail-oriented as usual in that dialogue-scene, then it would have been exactly 79 years right to the month (or possibly even to the week, depending).

Great point. Usually I assume there is wiggle room with dates like that since the person is just rounding it off, but with Data he wouldn't be doing that.

And the rest of that pre-TVH timeline is very similar to mine, with a number of months elapsing between TWoK and TSFS (the first eight issues of the first DC volume being in my personal continuity), and I roughly had Star Trek IV as taking place circa March 2286, but an early April date could work fine, too.

I stretched it to early April just to make the "six month shakedown" work a tiny bit closer and still end up in 87 by TFF.

According to the fifth movie, the starship has been there for at least three weeks, if not longer ("You promised me you could have the ship operational in two weeks; I gave you three. What happened?"), so if we take TNG into account, the movie could be set up as far as late January 2287.

Plus they could have been there for months, and then Scotty told the captain it would only be two more weeks.

And Ryan don't worry about not having read the New Earth series. I read them when they first were available at my local library and I still ended up feeling like I spent too much money on them.

Yes I doubt I will ever get around to reading those. Just don't seem too interesting.

Ryan here’s a quick timeline I did last night/this morning when I came home from work on my thoughts on the ‘New Earth’ series and its placement in the timeline.

2278
OCTOBER – 2278
October 31, 2278
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 10 – The Captain’s Meeting

DECEMBER – 2278
December 1, 2278
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 5 – Note: 3 months earlier, just before the launch of the Belle Terre mission. ‘9 months there, 6 months back’.

2279
C. MARCH – 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 1-4, 6-9, 11 – Note: 4½ months since the expedition launched.

APRIL – 2279
April 11, 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 12 – Note: 5 months, 11 days, 16 hours since the expedition launched if the expedition launched on December 1, 2278.

April 27, 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 13-18 – Note: 16 days later. VOTI places these Chapters in 'April'.

C. MAY/JUNE – 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 19 – Note: ‘Weeks’ later.

C. JULY – 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 20-25 – Note: The next day. According to VOTI the Belle Terre expedition arrives at its destination in ‘July’.

C. LATE JULY/EARLY AUGUST – 2279
New Earth: Belle Terre – Note: Spans 12 days. Various characters say they arrived ‘2-4 weeks’ ago. I take that to mean the expedition arrived in orbit 4 weeks ago, spent two weeks scanning the planet for a suitable landing site and two weeks setting up the colony.

C. LATE SEPTEMBER/EARLY OCTOBER – 2279
New Earth: Rough Trails – Chapters 1-17 – Note: Again various characters say it’s been 6 weeks/2 months after 'Belle Terre' and runs approximately 4-5 days. It concludes 2-3 months later when Chekov’s transport is due to arrive.

DECEMBER – 2279
New Earth: Rough Trails – Chapter 18 – Note: 6 weeks later. VOTI places these events in 'December'; Chekov’s transport is due to arrive in a few days to take him to the Reliant.

2280
C. MARCH (JUNE?) – 2280
New Earth: The Flaming Arrow – Note: In Chapter 1 Kirk thinks to himself that Chekov has been gone 3 months and that they’ve been defending the colony for ‘nearly a year’. If Chekov left 3 months ago it’s sometime in March. If it’s ‘nearly a year’, then it’s closer to June. One possible explanation is that Kirk is rounding up and it’s closer to 9-10 months, so that fits a March date.

C. JUNE (SEPTEMBER?) – 2280
New Earth: Thin Air – Note: At one point Spock says it’s been ‘3 months, 6 days’ since the events of ‘The Flaming Arrow’. Again if it’s three months since March, it’s sometime in June. If it has been ‘nearly a year’ in ‘The Flaming Arrow’ and it is three months after that, then it’s September. The earlier date is preferred.

New Earth: Challenger – This one was hard to pin down because I far as I could figure, there were no references to the previous four stories in the series. It took me 2-3 times reading it to figure out what was happening, and even that is a guess at best.
Chapters 1, 3, 5, 7-8, 10 are set in an undetermined point in the ‘past’ during the starship Peleliu’s outward bound journey to Belle Terre. My notes say 6 months and 3 months; so that could mean the ship left 6 months ago and there are three months left; or that certain chapters are set 6 months ago and others are three months later. It was all very confusing.
Chapters 2, 4, 6, 9, 11-12 are set in the ‘present’ onboard the Enterprise and the Belle Terre colony. They are awaiting the arrival of the Peleliu to relieve the Enterprise.
Chapters 12-24, Epilogue – The Peleliu arrives and the chapters sync up for the rest of the story. Chapter 15 is set two days after Chapters 12-14 and Chapter 20 is set 16+ days after Chapters 15-19 during which time the Peleliu is rebuilt and renamed ‘Challenger’.

Gateways: Challenger and Gateways: Chainmail are set one month after the end of New Earth: Challenger.

As you can see there is no point in the series where Christopher’s ‘Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again’ which is set in November 2279, could be slotted as it would fall between chapters of ‘Rough Trails’.
Interestingly enough, in my notes on ‘New Earth’ there is a notation on ‘The Pandora Principle’ which says ‘FASA date – August 10, 2218’. I checked my FASA Guide to the Federation and sure enough there’s a date for Saavik’s admission to Starfleet Academy. A transposition of the numbers changes the date to August 10, 2281 which could be a possible date for placement in the timeline. I think what I was trying to do at the time was find the earliest possible date the Enterprise could return from the Belle Terre mission and not mess up the placement of ‘The Pandora Principle’.

I will totally trust your notes on this since I've never read these. As always you've done a great and detailed job!

So a possible solution is to move the ‘New Earth’ series up a year to October 31, 2279, have ‘Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again’ in November 2279, the Belle Terre expedition launch in December 2279 and have it run through June 2281 and the Enterprise returning in time for ‘The Pandora Principle’.
What does everybody think?

Seems like the perfect solution to me. I knew TDDA was slotted in the New Earth timeperiod, but having only a passing familiarity with the New Earth storyline, I didn't realize that meant the Enterprise should be gone on this mission during that entire period. I will change my timeline to match what you've figured out here. Thanks!
 
Darren the only thing I notice, and this is coming from having not read these, is you said the mission takes 9 months there, 6 months back. So does that mean it will take the Enterprise 6 months to return following New Earth: Challenger? So in what order would New Earth: Challenger, Challenger: Chain Mail, Pandora Principle, and Dwellers in the Crucible take place?
 
I'll have to check my notes, I've been driving around thinking about moving the placement of a couple of the novels but it shouldn't effect the timeline much.
 
I don't have one. I hope to one day but that's a bigger project than I've got around to yet.

Why not start with the timelime already created in Voyages of the Imagination and go from there. Do one book a week since that timeline and then you'll have it done in no time.
 
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