A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

[ZapBrannigan]

Like I said, I'm going with the idea that the storm was an FTL effect, that itself swept the Valiant to faster-than-light speed. Something's gotta give in the dialog: either one is loose with what is meant by "magnetic" or one is loose with what is meant by "impulse". I'm going with the former.

I'm not sure why you say "past other stars", though. If it's a question of collision, stars themselves occupy only a tiny fraction of the volume of the galaxy. They wouldn't be in the way. When two galaxies collide, stellar contact is rare to non-existent. If it's a question of the distance involved, I'm assuming that the storm provides all the FTL effect needed to get out that far.

I know that not all fans agree with this notion here, because we've discussed the subject before. I'm just trying to clarify what I mean, because I sense that it might not have been fully clear what I'm suggesting.

I share your understanding of the stars being so far apart that you won't hit one by accident. By "past other stars" I was trying to draw a distinction. I meant going out to interstellar distances, not merely outside our solar system, which can be done (it took real-life Voyager 1 thirty-six years at 17 kilometers per second). To get to a galactic boundary area, at least 500 light years from Earth, you have to go FTL somehow-- which we also agree on.

We just disagree on what to massage in the WNM dialog. I take Kirk's "impulse" reference not to mean that the Valiant had impulse only. He was somehow speaking in shorthand and left a misleading impression to us laymen.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

We just disagree on what to massage in the WNM dialog. I take Kirk's "impulse" reference not to mean that the Valiant had impulse only. He was somehow speaking in shorthand and left a misleading impression to us laymen.

I think it actually works better to just plug our ears and go la-la-la when he says the word impulse there. If we strike that word from the dialog in connection to the Valiant, then everything works much better.

At this point, now that Star Trek: First Contact is in the can, that's what I'd prefer to do. Impulse really should mean sublight. If ST:FC in the 21st century was set just a decade or two later, we could reasonably assume that the Valiant got a few light-years out at sublight and then got swept away.

Another alternative is to assume that the magnetic space storm nullifies/shorts out either more primitive warp drives or any warp drive whatsoever, so that they had to go on impulse only. You still have to tweak the dialog probably (you'd expect them to mention this fact in the course of natural conversation, which already represents a somewhat extensive exposition as it is), but I don't think it's as contradictory in that case.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Great points everyone.

I especially like the idea that the barrier manifests itself, whenever warp drive comes into play (and didn't we see something like that happening in "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" I never quite understood where they ended up exactly, but IIRC the VFX footage was the one from the barrier of WNM).

I'm not sure if Kirk mentioning explicitly the weakness of the impulse engines can be taken as evidence that the Valiant only had impulse drive.

According to "The Immunity Syndrome" Scotty combined warp and impulse engines (!) to create a greater thrust. For a vessel like the Valiant, impulse engines may have played a bigger role in that era than in TOS, so a lot of breakaway power did rely on those.

Bob

 

[plynch]

I do not remember that....but did wonder why Kirk left Elizabeth's stinking corpse on my planet. Imagine climbing out of that hole, only to discover...that...

Yeah, so? Bring her back to life. You're a god.

(One of you is, anyway.)

Where does it say Dehner's body was left behind? For that matter who is to say they left Mitchell's body under the slab?

It's in my assumptions.

 

[publiusr]

I don't have a problem with some warp travel destinations having shorter transit times.

I just assume that certain space lanes were rather like SW hyperspace lanes, something laid down by other entities long ago, near cosmic strings allowing variable speed of light. Warp factors are similarly amplified.

Once away from the string, warp is rather more normal.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Where does it say Dehner's body was left behind? For that matter who is to say they left Mitchell's body under the slab?

I could see them taking Dehner's body back, but since it was a huge-ass rock formation that fell on Gary, I'd say his body was probably pulped. Best to just leave it there than bring back a few scrapings and some teeth.

 

[Redfern]

Given the depth of the "grave" and the nominal "bulge" upon the front face (later downward after its 90 degree rotation), I figured there was a substantial "gap" within the "tomb". and the way we saw Mitchell stumble and collapse back into the grave just as the slab descends, it's quite possible there was minimal trauma to his body.

But I figure something had to happen to keep him from levitating (or dramatically exploding) the slab in a gesture of god-like fury. Maybe he raised his head high enough to have the bulge of the slab strike it, either killing him instantly or knocking him unconscious long enough to die of asphixiation once the slab "sealed' the grave.

"But the phaser rifle didn't hurt him," I imagine you stating. I used to wonder that too. Maybe because he was aware of the impending phaser shot Mitchell was able to use his powers to "shield" himself. But with the slab falling, he was caught off guard and his body was still prone to injury if he didn't use his abilities.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[publiusr]

So Batman didn't have time to prepare after all...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I could see them taking Dehner's body back, but since it was a huge-ass rock formation that fell on Gary, I'd say his body was probably pulped. Best to just leave it there than bring back a few scrapings and some teeth.

I would have left Mitchell's pulped body behind and gotten out of there fast. I'm reminded of a line, I think it's from one of Anne Rice's vampire novels. A very old, weary vampire is desperate to die, so he arranges to have someone burn him. And he says, "Scatter the ashes, or I might rise again. And in what form I dare not contemplate."

 

[Timewalker]

^ And Rigil Kent is just down the street!

So, how many Rigels were there in TOS?

Stars or planets? Apparently the Star Trek version of Rigel has a lot of planets, some Class M, in spite of the real Rigel being a very young star that is unlikely to have such planets.

Where does it say Dehner's body was left behind? For that matter who is to say they left Mitchell's body under the slab?

Personally, I wouldn't risk having their remains on the ship. Kirk may have simply buried Dehner and left, making sure to place a warning buoy so no other ships ran any possible risks there. In some cases, better paranoid than sorry.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I am watching "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (1.03) and have noticed something that later Star Trek shows such as Star Trek: Voyager contradicts. At one point pretty early in the episode, Kirk instructs Mitchell to leave the galaxy at warp factor one. Later shows clearly indicate that leaving the galaxy would not be possible (not even at warp factor ten let alone at warp factor one). The whole premise of Star Trek: Voyager, for example, is that the crew gets stranded in a different quadrant of the galaxy, and the journey home is expected to take about seventy-five years. I am sure that there are other instances of this kind of writing error happening throughout the franchise, as well, but I am pointing this one out because I just caught it. It's so frustrating that the writers weren't more careful than that.

Could it be that maybe the galaxy they are talking about in Where No Man Has Gone Before be just the one they are in? Galaxies are numerous in the universe, whereas Voyager got stranded in a different quadrant, not galaxy.