Maybe he tried that once, and that's why Janeway promoted B'Elanna over him.
A few things to discuss about Kes
- Thread starter BohandiAnsoid
- Start date
Still, it's the impression I get.
Now this statement from Berman actually show's arrogance and also narrow-minded thinking.
What should have been important for him was th tell good stories. The ranks of the main characters are less important and thew show wouldn't have suffered if Kim had been promoted.
TNG had no ensign among itas main chaarcters, except for Ensign Ro who was a recurring character and DS9 had Ezri Dax as ensign to start with but she was promoted.
Yes, and that was actually good for the series.
Garak should have been added as a regular, especilly in the later seasons.
I look forward to it.
You're welcome!
Another character destruction which annoys me.
Carey was a great chaarcter who had deserved better than that.
Yes, or that The Doctor actually could bring him back in the same way we have seen with other characters.
No, that's right. But I still have my doubts of having her in a command position.
If I had been Carey, I would never have accepted a person who almost killed me as my assistant.
Not to mention being shoved asdide by that person who all pof a sudden replaces me as Chief Engineer.
Storywise, they should nver have come up wioth that "b'Elanna almost killed carey" scenario if B'Elanna was supposed to be a main character and Chief engineer.
But in the first episode he told Riker that he was uncomfortable with children so a family life didn't seem to be his first choice.
Yes, unfortunately they weren't and the current books seem to be more for eliminating and killing off good characters insetad of following up loose ends.
I remember watching that episode and thought that Janeway acted like a jerk there.
But what I disliked most with the episode was that they never played the song "Thirty Days" with Johnny Winter in it.
I mean, imagine paris in his cell listening to that on full volume.
Or doing that in his quarters after being released. Now that would have given a rather boring episode a certain touch.
I can agree on that. Anything which had led to a promootion for harry and made all that "Harry is a loser" memes and comments irrelevant would have been good.
Fortunately they never ruined the Klingons.
But they would have been much better with Gowron as Chancellor. I mean, here they have a great character who can be available for future series, movies and books so why waste him.
And Robert O'Reilly is a great actor!
I agree and I think that data in his "Sherlock Holmes mode" would agree with me.
I agree.
Kes is no psycho killer.
True.
Me, on the other hand likes to investigate it even more!
I still wonder what happened on the Enterprise which got O'Brien demoted.
I have to start digging in it again.
O'Briens dark secrets. Was he actually demoted?
I've been looking at Miles O'Brien's career in Starfleet and I get the impression that he must have been demoted at some time in his career. I've been trying to sort it out with the help of Memory Alpha but haven't found the definite answer yet. In the first season of TNG he's actually an...
www.trekbbs.com
Ah, that's why Janeway didn't like Carey and made B'Elanna the new Chief Engineer!
I heard that they tried to do it, but the actor refused
From reading in to limited information I'm afraid. Our perceptions determine our reality.
That's sad. But garak was still good as a recurring character and in so many episodes in later seasons that he actually became a main character.
I won't call my information "limited" in this case.
On the contrary, I've searched many sources in many places.
Until we can speak to the writers and they say, "Yes, we absolutely intended to anger the fans and/or hated Kes as a character" the term "destruction" is one I cannot agree with.
If Kim had actually been developed, or allowed to grow in accordance with his new rank, the show would have benefitted.
As was pretty much every other ensign on the series. Even on LD, a show was was reportedly all about ensigns!
The only other show where the ensigns weren't promoted was ENT, which didn't appear to have the "hollow pip" ranks at all, which would have explained fewer promotions. Though Mayweather still deserved one, for being the most competent person on the ship.
It would explain why Janeway, who went back in time to save three people, didn't bother going back a bit further to save a fourth.
Agreed. Another alternative for resolving Carey, BTW, would be for him and the "problem" Maquis to jump ship on Planet 37's. It's a way better resolution for him, plus he could still come back in "Shattered".
Agreed. It speaks ill of Janeway that she promotes a violent loose cannon because of a few friendly moments in a shuttlecraft.
When I was young, I regarded myself as being horrible with kids. Now, I've worked professionally with them for nearly 20 years.
Not sure I could have thrown that in, since Tom was never in the brig. Because instead of Tom trying and failing to blow up one oxygen refinery, several of them "accidentally" went kaboom after Voyager left the system.
And why waste the undercurrent of tension between the Klingons and the Federation?
Not to mention assassinate Martok? I firmly believe he should have shoved that furry coat right back on Worf and shouted "CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS, PETA'Q!"
Too bad. Though Trek seems to have a 9-character limit, so one wonders who'd have been deleted. Maybe Dax, only she doesn't get replaced.
If it's anything like my theory that the showrunners' actions with Harry were a combination of malevolence and incompetence, there's plentiful evidence, most notable process of elimination... but that's admittedly not proof.
But the alternative is that they were REALLY incompetent.
Accidental destruction is still destruction.
During the normal episodes, it is excusable. But not in that last episode. It's been 6 years, most of which during an open war, and no one got promoted? Impossible. It is even longer than Harry!
Poor writing decisions are not destruction. The things I still enjoy remain.
So if I visit your house when you are watching "that episode in season 6" and I pull up a gun and empty the magazine into the TV and a possible DVD player, then you don't consider it destruction until you have asked me if it was meant as destruction?
And what do you say then if I just answer: "Sorry it isn't, it's just me showing my artistical talents. or "Sorry, I just happened to pull op my gun by mistake and all those shots just happened to go off"?
Yes, it had.
Just look at Nog's development and even Ezri's in some way.
Not to mention McGee in NCIS making him develope from nerd to responsible and skilled field agent has actually been good for the show, especially in the crrent situation when all the original main characters are gone.
Yes.
That's true. But ENT did mess up a lot of things. maybe Berman and Braga simpy decided to eliminate all problems with ensigns without promotion by simply omit ensigns?
Yes and it aslo don't make janeway look as such a failure in that situation.
I would have kept Carey as a recurring character for the whole series. he was a good character whos houln't have been wasted already after season 1.
In the Voyager books, he continues to be a prominent character even in seasons 2 and 3.
Yes, therefore the whole scenari was wrong all from the start.
Well, we all learn during our lifetime.
As for Picard, he wasn't hopeles with kids. He actually handled the situations in the episodes Disaster and Imaginary Friend good.
Still, I have problems seeing Picard being something else than what he was in TNG.
I mean, even if he had had kids, I'm sure that he would still be the same captain Picard as he was during the series.
But he was in the brig at the beginning of the episode what i can remember.
And still the song would have been very appropriate and also given us some good rock music in a VOY episode.
And it would have made me buy season 5 if only to watch that episode!
Yes! That's one of the reasons why I want Gowron in charge of the Klingon Empire!
he's a bit unpredictable which makes the klingons mor einteresting than just a passive allied to the Federation.
Someone just have to take my concept for restoring Gowron as Klingon Chancellor. I would offer them it for free if necessary, all for the sake of art.
DS9 still managed good with all the recurring characters.
Exactly what I think about "the Kes case too".
And I find it hard to label them as REALLY incompetent since they actually managed to come up with many good stories. But they did seem to have a mean streak too.
See my comment at the top at this post, about shooting a TV and maybe also a DVD player to pieces and it wouldn't be regarded as destruction.
ENT did mess up a few things.
In this case, there's a little less evidence. It's more like we walked in and found the TV smashed. And we're wondering if you destroyed it on purpose, or were just doing something dumb.So if I visit your house when you are watching "that episode in season 6" and I pull up a gun and empty the magazine into the TV and a possible DVD player, then you don't consider it destruction until you have asked me if it was meant as destruction?
And what do you say then if I just answer: "Sorry it isn't, it's just me showing my artistical talents. or "Sorry, I just happened to pull op my gun by mistake and all those shots just happened to go off"?
Though either way, if I was watching "that episode" the TV destroyer probably did me a favor.
Definitely Nog, Jake, and Bashir. Ezri's vast potential for development was sacrificed to time constraints.
McGee has had an amazing arc. Though admittedly, he's had 20+ years to follow it.
Mayweather and Hoshi were ensigns. Even if you declare that the last episode was a fictionalized holo-simulation, they remained thus for four years, possibly because for come reason, Starfleet only seemed to have four non-flag ranks instead of six.
But eliminating him would have been a more reasonable conclusion to his character arc. What there was of it.
Yes. But not in my "Roads Not Taken" timeline, which is what I was describing. Though he pulled a couple of rough shifts in Voyager's nursery.
I can understand that. Incompetence or malice, either way it's offensive that professionals did this.
Like... saying it was a prequel and refusing to actually be one?
Non sequitur is a non sequitur.
And I would still be answering that:
1. "Sorry it isn't, it's just me showing my artistical talents.
Or:
2."Sorry, I just happened to pull op my gun by mistake and all those shots just happened to go off"?
Or most likely:
"What? Me? How can you suspect me for doing something so destructive. My only purpose was to entertain you!"
The first and only time I watched that horrible episode, I was very close to throw out the TV through the window. Only sheer greed (TVs are expensive) and a certain concern for the people on the street below prevented me from doing it.
It was also live on TV so my then VHS player was innocent and would have avoided the destruction.
Yes, but Ezri still had some development during her only season.
That's right. But it was still a development.
And I do thnk that McGee developed more than harry during the first 7 years of his role as an NCIS agent.
Which is a bit strange since the rank system in Starfleet seem to be copied from the rank system of the US Navy.
I don't think so since he was a very good characters which his achievements in the books shows. He should definitely have been a recurring charatcer through all the 7 seasons of VOY.
Ah, you're really messing with my mind here.
It's a long time since I watched those episodes and all of a sudden, certain events are described which I don't remember at all.
Yes, just like they don't understand or want to understand that the constant character destruction is annoying for many fans, not to mention meaningless as well.
Yes, exactly. It looked more like VOY or Babylon 5 than a pre-TOS series.
It was more like Berman and Braga coming up with their own version of TOS like they thought that TOS should have been from the beginning.
But my commens aren't!
Glad you didn't. You can be thrown in jail for that.
That's a low bar. Harry's development was virtually nonexistent.
Like most of the decisions regarding ENT, it made no sense.
Mainly, the neurosis she gained from being joined without training magically disappears, and she begins firing guns on the Defiant rather than counseling people. And she hooks up with Bashir, arguably the most meh romance on Trek.
Ah, you're really messing with my mind here.
It's a long time since I watched those episodes and all of a sudden, certain events are described which I don't remember at all.
Sorry. Given that "Thirty Days" was one of the very few VOY episodes thst didn't slam the Reset Button, I figured most people would know about it.
One wonders what those two were thinking sometimes. Some of their decisions felt like the equivalent of racing a steamship with too few lifeboats through iceberg infested waters at maximum speed on a moonless night.
Yes they are because the comparison is not equal. For it to be equal I would need to have copies of my older TVs that you could not impact.
Well, that might have been another reason for me for not throwing out the TV.
Unfortunately i have to agree here.
Honestly, ENT should never have been made.
It was wrong to come up with a retro series. They should have come up with a Starfleet Academy series, a series about Section 31, A Star Trek version of NCIS, a series about Wesley Crusher having a career in Starfleet, a series about the aftermath of the Dominion War, PIC made in 2005...............I mean anything but a retro series. As I see it, that action damaged Star Trek.
I think that Ezri was quite OK.
My only objection was that she shouldn't have been a Dax but instead jadzia's younger sister. Jadzia shouldn't have been killed off but got a popsting on the Enterprise and Ezri would have been her younger sister. Then we had also avoided the Worf/Ezri relationship which was ten time worse than Bashir/Ezri.
I watched it back then when it was aired and haven't watched it since then so some deatails have been lost, or sinking deep into the well of time.
However, I do remember that I was thinking about the Johnny Winter song when i watched it.
A very good description!
That would be even more fun since older TVs explodes in a more entertaining way than the flat ones.
In fact, the TV I almost did throw out from my window after watching that episode in season 6 was an older one. It would have made a certain impact on the spectators who watched the event. But as I stated, pure greed and a strange concern for the people walking below stopped me from doing that.
And note that I was actually warned by some American friends who had watched the episode some months before I did, sort of "You won't like it" so I was prepared for something unpleasant. but not even in my worst nightmares, i could imagines something as hideous as that episode.
However, if we return to the fictional scenario in which I blast your TV, it could actually have happened yesterday, it would be your current TV and the outcome would be the same: Did I do it on purpose, was it an accident or did I do it at all?
This is now deliberately missing my point. Happy New Year
If they weren't willing to fully commit to it as a retro series, you're right.
Agreed. And she shouldn't be a counselor. Deanna was on the bridge, but she didn't fire the Enterprise's guns, after all.
Both were aberrations, but at least one self-destructed quickly.
It was a good episode, even if the ending was kind of depressing. Spoiler alert, Tom failed. The world he was seeking to save was still doomed. He lost his rank and his freedom for nothing.
A very good description!
It just brings out the sheer stupidity of the decision, doesn't it?
Well, given that you might have been watching "Life Line" in the TV lounge at your local slammer had you done so, you probably made the right call.
Similar threads
