A Few Questions & Blips I've Been Thinking About...

[VulcanVixen]

1. In Journey to Babel, when Sarek is asked why he married Amanda, he says, "It was the logical thing to do." Does that mean he knocked her up and was obligated to marry her?

2. If Vulcans do not have/show emotion... how do they love or show care for another person? When Sarek is disappointed at his son for joining Starfleet, isn't that an emotion, too?

3. Vulcan's are said to age slowly. Then why, does Spock look older than Jim in the trilogy movies? I think they didn't consider that when they came up with that idea for "The Deadly Years"

4. Why is Spock always the ladies man in nearly every other episode? You'd think Jim would be the one pushing all the ladies away. Even in the new movie, Spock & Uhura are together, a pairing almost illogical (if you don't take into consideration the earlier episodes of season one.) I think it's because his indifference to emotions is sexy. Women always feel like they can "Change" men. They might not know it, but I think the root attraction about Spock to most women is the idea that they can control him, changing him to their specifications so they can say, "see? I made a vulcan feel!" I, personally, have loved Spock because of his appearance since I was 9. Don't ask why, I don't even know myself!

5. In the episode Wolf in the Fold, I thought it was a little bit risque for Jim to subtly suggest he, McCoy and Spock go to a WHOREHOUSE! "I know a little cafe where all the women are..." haha, oh, Jimmy boy! Either that, or every woman on Argelius is a slut. lol

 

[JustKate]

1. When Sarek says he married Amanda because it was the logical thing to do, he's joking. Clearly. Of course Vulcans joke - Spock does it all the time, and Sarek does from time to time as well. You mustn't take what they say literally, any more than you'd take it literally when an obviously happy couple says, "We've stayed married only because divorce is too expensive." It's a joke.

2. Vulcans are not and never have been emotionless. I don't think they ever say that they are. (McCoy does, but that's his way of trying to rile Spock - he can be kind of a twit that way.) What they do is attempt to control their emotions so that they can make decisions based on logic instead of emotion. Controlling emotions isn't at all the same as not having any.

3. Nimoy and Shatner are the same age. The only reason Kirk looks younger than Spock is because Shatner has...well, taken steps to keep it that way.

4. Kirk gets a lot more girls than Spock. But the reason Spock gets the girls when he does get the girls is because, as many of us who became fans back in the day realized (and apparently you have as well, VulcanVixen), Spock is hotter than Kirk. Check out "The all-enclusive sexiest character" thread in General Trek, and you'll see that both Spocks are well ahead of both Kirks. Which is exactly the way it should be, or so it seems to me, but then, I've always been a Spock girl.

5. So the only place where there are lots of beautiful women is whorehouses? Really? Huh. I must disagree with you there.

 

[Wingsley]

^ Yes, one of Spock's more memorable "Vulcan" sayings from TOS Year 1 was "I am in control of my emotions!" ("The Naked Time"), seconded by "I am a Vulcan. There is no pain." Notice that Spock insists on "control", not on being a completely emotionless automaton.

Another telling line would be in the jail cell in "Bread and Circuses", when McCoy confronts Spock about being "more affraid of living" because every day Spock lives there's another chance "your human side might slip out".

 

[Christopher]

1. In Journey to Babel, when Sarek is asked why he married Amanda, he says, "It was the logical thing to do." Does that mean he knocked her up and was obligated to marry her?

Unlikely, since ENT established (following the precedent of The Final Reflection and other Trek novels) that human-Vulcan interbreeding required medical intervention. It was never explained what he meant, but the new movie offers a possible interpretation: when young Spock asks Sarek why he married Amanda, Sarek replies that as Vulcan's ambassador to Earth, it's incumbent upon him to be as familiar with humans as possible. Though of course he later admits that this wasn't the real reason; he married her because he loved her. (And since Spock was born at least a year before Nero split the timeline, this is presumably true in the Prime history as well.)

3. Vulcan's are said to age slowly. Then why, does Spock look older than Jim in the trilogy movies? I think they didn't consider that when they came up with that idea for "The Deadly Years"

Naturally. They had no idea people would still be making Trek productions decades later.

Even in the new movie, Spock & Uhura are together, a pairing almost illogical (if you don't take into consideration the earlier episodes of season one.)

If anything, it would be illogical not to take all evidence into consideration.

5. In the episode Wolf in the Fold, I thought it was a little bit risque for Jim to subtly suggest he, McCoy and Spock go to a WHOREHOUSE! "I know a little cafe where all the women are..." haha, oh, Jimmy boy! Either that, or every woman on Argelius is a slut. lol

The episode made it as clear as 1960s broadcast standards allowed that Argelius was a culture that was far more open about sexuality than our own. Remember how shocked the Argelians were when Morla of Cantaba Street confessed to feeling jealousy when his girlfriend came onto another man. Implicitly, Argelians are polyamorous; by their standards, Kara was behaving properly by being promiscuous and Morla was behaving improperly by wanting her all to himself.

Kirk wasn't necessarily saying that the women at that cafe were employees; it could just be that a particularly desirable class of women favored that cafe as the place they went to pick up men. Or maybe, as with Kara, the women in question are employed as dancers or hostesses, and are free to choose on their own initiative to pick up men they like. Even if they are sex workers, it doesn't seem like that profession would be regarded negatively in Argelian society, any more than it is on Risa in the TNG/DS9 era. The basic ethos of both Argelian and Risan society is an enlightened hedonism: if it feels good and harms no one, it's good.

3. Nimoy and Shatner are the same age. The only reason Kirk looks younger than Spock is because Shatner has...well, taken steps to keep it that way.

Not necessarily. Some people just age more slowly than others, whether due to genetic or environmental factors. (Was Nimoy a heavy smoker? That promotes wrinkles. Among other, far worse things.)

 

[JustKate]

^ Sure. Don't think that has anything to do with Shatner's hair, though.

 

[Christopher]

Nimoy's still got a full head of hair, apparently, so I don't think hair is the point of comparison here.

 

[VulcanVixen]

Haha, I think it's no secret Kirk wanted to get laid on Argelius. I thought the subtle undertone was referring to a whorehouse. You see, it gets lonely on the starship enterprise, I'm sure. Although there are plenty of women on the ship, guys love their no strings attached one night stands.

I know Vulcans control their emotions, and it's sometimes hard for me to decipher these jokes. The idea of Vulcans having no emotion was something I had thought a long time ago when I was a kid watching the show, but like you said, Kate, I was somewhat aware that they control it, just wasn't absolutely positive about it. So, thanks for your justification

Thanks for your input, Chris & Kate!

 

[VulcanVixen]

P.s. The reason I always see Spock as the source of main attraction on tos, is because it is all I see. I know Kirk has been with many women on the series, it's just hurts and stands out more when I see Spock with one... I know, I'm totally illogical, he's just a fictional character, haha.*sigh*

 

[VulcanVixen]

^ Yes, one of Spock's more memorable "Vulcan" sayings from TOS Year 1 was "I am in control of my emotions!" ("The Naked Time")QUOTE]

Yes, and I always thought he said that because he's half human and has a strong desire to express his emotions. lol

 

[Christopher]

Haha, I think it's no secret Kirk wanted to get laid on Argelius. I thought the subtle undertone was referring to a whorehouse. You see, it gets lonely on the starship enterprise, I'm sure. Although there are plenty of women on the ship, guys love their no strings attached one night stands.

Well, it's in the tradition of sailors coming into port and going into town to pick up women. The women could be prostitutes, or they could just be women the sailors met at a bar or a nightclub. After all, Kirk did say "cafe," which is a word for a dining establishment, not a house of prostitution. So while looking for sex was definitely the implication, it wasn't necessarily paid sex that was being sought.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ Yes, one of Spock's more memorable "Vulcan" sayings from TOS Year 1 was "I am in control of my emotions!" ("The Naked Time")QUOTE]

Yes, and I always thought he said that because he's half human and has a strong desire to express his emotions. lol

Emotional control isn't genetic in Vulcans, its a learned. Vulcans are more emotional than humans. Thats why they need to keep their emotions under wraps.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Not necessarily. Some people just age more slowly than others, whether due to genetic or environmental factors. (Was Nimoy a heavy smoker? That promotes wrinkles. Among other, far worse things.)

Nimoy is a recovering alcoholic and, as such, used to drink heavily. Dehydration of the skin is common after heavy drinking, making it more prone to wrinkling. Nimoy is open about his alcoholism, and it is discussed in Shatner's book, Up Til Now.

Haha, I think it's no secret Kirk wanted to get laid on Argelius. I thought the subtle undertone was referring to a whorehouse. You see, it gets lonely on the starship enterprise, I'm sure. Although there are plenty of women on the ship, guys love their no strings attached one night stands.

Well, it's in the tradition of sailors coming into port and going into town to pick up women. The women could be prostitutes, or they could just be women the sailors met at a bar or a nightclub. After all, Kirk did say "cafe," which is a word for a dining establishment, not a house of prostitution. So while looking for sex was definitely the implication, it wasn't necessarily paid sex that was being sought.

It could also be that this "cafe" was like a lot of the bars that surrounded U.S. military installations in Southeast Asia; not necessarily dens of prostitution, but places where a sailor or solider could get a girl to keep him company by buying her drinks and tipping extremely well.

 

[Cuhl]

3. Vulcan's are said to age slowly. Then why, does Spock look older than Jim in the trilogy movies? I think they didn't consider that when they came up with that idea for "The Deadly Years"

Didn't Shatner insist on looking less aged than his co-stars when they were doing the makeup for "Deadly Years"?

 

[Jonas Grumby]

^ I rather doubt it. Spock, in fact, looked considerably younger than the "old" Kirk.

McCoy and Scott did look older, but those two characters are older than Kirk.

There was a young woman - presumably younger than Kirk - who did look older, but she was used to specifically make the plot point that some people age unusually quickly.

 

[Maurice]

Haha, I think it's no secret Kirk wanted to get laid on Argelius...

P.s. The reason I always see Spock as the source of main attraction on tos, is because it is all I see...

Yes, and I always thought he said that because he's half human and has a strong desire to express his emotions. lol

You may want to use the Multiquote function instead of multiple sequential replies. The board rules frown on sequential posts.

 

[VulcanVixen]

You may want to use the Multiquote function instead of multiple sequential replies. The board rules frown on sequential posts.

I do what I want! Plus, I'm barely getting the hang of this...

 

[T'Girl]

Haha, I think it's no secret Kirk wanted to get laid on Argelius...

What I keep coming back to is the scene where Kirk keep trying to get Spock (of all people) to join him in a visit to the cafe/brothal. Obviously Kirk didn't want to go by himself.

What do you think Vixen, was he gunning to get Spock in a mmf - three way?

You may want to use the Multiquote function instead of multiple sequential replies. The board rules frown on sequential posts.

The multiquote is actually kind of hard to use. I've been trying for over a week now and can't get it to work right.

 

[Christopher]

^Hit "Multi Quote" on all the posts you want to reply to, then hit the "Post Reply" button at the bottom of the thread on the left-hand side of the screen. You'll get an edit window containing quotes of all the posts you clicked, in the order you clicked them.

 

[T'Girl]

Perhap it's because vixen and I haven't been on the board very long - there is no "post reply" button. Only "post quick reply", "go advanced" and "submit reply".

 

[Christopher]

Maybe you're not looking in the right place. It's just beneath the last post in the thread, on the far left of the screen. Above the line that says "Bookmarks." It took me a few weeks to discover it after the board was upgraded.