A Different Direction for The Doctor

[Borough 31]

I've wished that they had done this....

So the doctor commits some crime inadvertently against a powerful space-faring empire—happens often enough. The punishment is death, and of course Janeway is like, "#$# it, can't do anything. Their rules." Except that The Doctor is essentially immortal, so they inverse the punishment by collecting some human tissue and creating a body for him. Then they transfer his program and memories into it, leaving him mortal.

This would have allowed for some interesting Doctor episodes, and it would have made a 7/doctor romance at least a bit feasible. Much better than Chakotay, imo. I know that the same thing happened to Odo briefly in DS9, but Trek likes to run common themes through their successive archetype characters anyway.

But then, I guess they didn't do that or anything like it for the same reason they didn't kill Riker off and replace him with Tom. The suits would scream bloody murder.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

They already did the "made mortal, made flesh" storyline with Odo. People would get sniffy.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

I like the Doctor's story just the way it is, even if he did get a bit nutty towards the end of Season 7.

 

[borgboy]

That would be fine for an episode or an extended arc, but overall I prefer the hologram as an oppressed minority storyarc. I strongly support the Doctor being with Seven as he is.

 

[Catarina]

nah. He is who he is and that separation is the appeal. You know Seven doc is far more feasible than Chakotay.

 

[Catarina]

I like the Doctor's story just the way it is, even if he did get a bit nutty towards the end of Season 7.

nutty? the flamboyance, the I want more, or...what didn't I catch?

 

[Makarov]

This would be like if half way through TNG an Alien of the Week showed up and transformed Data into a human for the rest of the series.

 

[Melakon]

The Doctor briefly had a human body when he inhabited Seven in "Body and Soul". If he'd been placed into a human body permanently, he would have been just like all the other organics on board, and his comments on humanity would cease to be from a unique perspective.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I'm not sure what would have been narratively gained from doing that.

Also if Janeway wouldn't turn over strangers to an oppressive Empire in Counterpoint, she's not going to do it to her own Doctor. And I don't see why the Empire wouldn't just demand he be deleted. They could come off with a story justification for making Doc flesh and blood, but it wouldn't be that one.

Maybe aliens make him flesh and blood as part of some misunderstanding of culture or something. Though it wouldn't have been interesting for more than one episode.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

An interesting idea. I wouldn't have minded seeing it in action.

The EMH was interesting when he started out, stuck in sickbay with limitations. Once they made him brilliant at everything he just became more and more annoying over the seasons, the final nail in his coffin was the whole ECH thing.

 

[Danny99]

The EMH was interesting when he started out, stuck in sickbay with limitations. Once they made him brilliant at everything he just became more and more annoying over the seasons, the final nail in his coffin was the whole ECH thing.

Couldn't agree more. Picardo is a capable actor who could have handled a lot more dramatic storylines, but the pompous ass that the EMH became was painful. His storylines about fighting for holographic rights and the two parter with the Hirogen in S7 along with the ECH stuff was brutal.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

His storylines about fighting for holographic rights

That was awful, it was such a none issue. What's next, starships on strike for continually being put in danger?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

His storylines about fighting for holographic rights

That was awful, it was such a none issue. What's next, starships on strike for continually being put in danger?

Any attorney could just cite the Measure of a Man case as precedent for classifying sufficiently complex AI as sentient life.

 

[borgboy]

I find the issue of hologram rights to be interesting. I found it strange that it didn't really change the way the Voyager crew treated other holograms though. Even when Janeway was having a relationship with a hologram in that village the crew was hanging out in, she didn't seem to really view him as person, which prompted her to end the relationship.
It's such a slippery slope on where sentience in a hologram begins, that using holographic people at all became morally questionable.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think that's the slippery slope. I think the bigger question is, why are we only willing to assign sentience to AIs who look like us? Maybe there are robots who look in no way human but are more complex than Data and the Doctor. Star Trek has only really touched on that in Quality of Life. Every other AI we have been presented as being complex enough to be sentient has looked and talked just like us.

 

[Orphalesion]

The EMH was interesting when he started out, stuck in sickbay with limitations. Once they made him brilliant at everything he just became more and more annoying over the seasons, the final nail in his coffin was the whole ECH thing.

Couldn't agree more. Picardo is a capable actor who could have handled a lot more dramatic storylines, but the pompous ass that the EMH became was painful. His storylines about fighting for holographic rights and the two parter with the Hirogen in S7 along with the ECH stuff was brutal.

Man I'm glad some people agree, every ST fan I know in real life LOVES the Doctor, I hate him for being a pompous ass, like you guys say. And then there's his creeping on Kes and Seven....

So I'm all for turning him to flesh and blood, that way things can hurt him

 

[borgboy]

I don't think that's the slippery slope. I think the bigger question is, why are we only willing to assign sentience to AIs who look like us? Maybe there are robots who look in no way human but are more complex than Data and the Doctor. Star Trek has only really touched on that in Quality of Life. Every other AI we have been presented as being complex enough to be sentient has looked and talked just like us.

That's a good point. It's mostly done that way so that an actor can play the part.
I would accept a non human looking AI as sentient. I worry about real life AI issues already in real life. Most people would be less sympathetic about something that doesn't look human though.