A Christmas Carol discussion and grading thread

[Starkers]

Hmm, thought I was being a bit pedantic for thinking the timeline of Abigail's family compared to Kazran didn't seem to flow right but definitely seemed a bit jarring at the time.

Just watched my DVR of the episode tonight. I loved it. Completely blew me away.

No one does time travel like Steven Moffat. He manages to wring more out of the concept in one hour than many writer/producers can present in a full 24 hour television season.

The scene where the Doctor shows Sardick's younger self what he becomes in the his future and have the kid mistake him for "Dad", was incredibly powerful. Sardick doesn't hit the kid at the beginning of the episode because he "remembers" this from his childhood, right?

Anyway, great episode. This one joins "The Girl in the Fireplace" and "Blink", as episodes I'd be most to show non-Who fans as examples of what the show is about.

But he can't remember it, because it hasn't happened yet, likely he just remembers his father going to hit him in the same way.

I like your idea that the young Kazran thinks its his dad, that removes on of the issues about the episode for me!

 

[Shazam!]

But he can't remember it, because it hasn't happened yet, likely he just remembers his father going to hit him in the same way.

You could also argue that it had all happened, especially if you look at old Kazran's refusing to let Katherine Jenkins out at the start ie. does he already know she'll die?

I like your idea that the young Kazran thinks its his dad, that removes on of the issues about the episode for me!

What issue is this? I don't think it's as literal as young Kazran thinking it's his dad. He sees that it's himself becoming his dad and then old Kazran 'remembers' that feeling.

 

[Starkers]

First off the Kazran we see at the start clearly has no memories of what happens once the Doctor gets involved. Firstly he wouldn't have been so snide knocking on Abigail's casket, secondly he'd have recognized the Doctor, and thirdly he'd have likely at least helped the Doctor given they had so much history together...except they didn't. The Doctor rewrote the guys life after this point, the memories changed whilst we watched.

I did wonder if anyone could zoom in on Abigails cryochamber at the start though, I'm assuming it still said 8 rather than 1

As for my issue with young Kazran seeing old Kazran...surely it impacts on everything the older Kazran(s) did? I dunno, plan to watch it again today and maybe it will strike me as making more sense this time around.

 

[Captain Pike]

I believe I can sum up this years festive offering in the following colloquial manner:

It was very good, but it was tripped off it's f*cken head..

Ooh matron, isit time for my sponge bath already?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"Energy," Smith has in spades and it's part of what makes him good at the over-the-top comic stuff.

Not for me, unfortunately. Errors like that can kind of spoil the enjoyment for me.

That's so sad.

 

[Checkmate]

It's because Kazran didn't strike the child in the beginning that the Doctor decided to go back in time and help him. As he said before heading back to the TARDIS (and I'm paraphrasing as I don't remember the exact quote), it was a sign that Kazran was a half-way decent person deep down.

 

[Captain Pike]

"Half way out of the dark.."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"Half way out of the dark.."

That was lovely.

 

[EJA]

"Energy," Smith has in spades and it's part of what makes him good at the over-the-top comic stuff.

Not for me, unfortunately. Errors like that can kind of spoil the enjoyment for me.

That's so sad.

What, taking serious notice of errors in plot logic is wrong?

 

[Shazam!]

First off the Kazran we see at the start clearly has no memories of what happens once the Doctor gets involved. Firstly he wouldn't have been so snide knocking on Abigail's casket, secondly he'd have recognized the Doctor, and thirdly he'd have likely at least helped the Doctor given they had so much history together...except they didn't. The Doctor rewrote the guys life after this point, the memories changed whilst we watched.

Yes, that's how I saw it too, but there is enough evidence to suggest that all those memories were suppressed if people wanted to believe that.

 

[VDCNI]

Don't know if anyone's already mentioned this, but I've noticed a pretty big plot hole: Abigail's family don't age. When they meet Kazran as a young man and as an old man, they look exactly the same. Even the little kid. Very bad plot logic there.

No they don't - the sister is played by a different - much older actress in the first scene. Plus the guy who speaks to Gambon at the start is not in the family scene so I presume he's supposed to be one of the kids grown up. The kid is the same but Dr Who wouldn't be the first show to use the same actor to represent different generations within a family.

I'm not convinced the ages quite match up but they certainly don't look the same.

 

[Shazam!]

I also enjoyed the Ark In Space uniform throwback.

 

[Captain Pike]

I have to admit, the first time the two Scrooge's (forget the Doctor Who name, so Scrooge will just have to do!) interacted my inner reptile nerd brain immediately thought of the Blimovitch limitation effect...

 

[wamdue]

"Half way out of the dark.."

I liked that expression as well.

I also enjoyed the Ark In Space uniform throwback.

I missed that, being the Classic Who fan that I am , however I thought it looked very naval.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"Energy," Smith has in spades and it's part of what makes him good at the over-the-top comic stuff.

Not for me, unfortunately. Errors like that can kind of spoil the enjoyment for me.

That's so sad.

What, taking serious notice of errors in plot logic is wrong?

With this show it's superfluous and always has been - not to mention that taking exception to plot logic is not the same as "noticing an error."

Not that you were taking exception to "plot logic," anyway - you were complaining about how someone looked to you. Since at least one of those characters was played by different actors in the two scenes in question, if there's an "error" it's an error in your observation that they "look exactly the same." They can't and they don't.

 

[Shazam!]

Not for me, unfortunately. Errors like that can kind of spoil the enjoyment for me.

Why do you assume it's an error?

 

[Sci]

Don't know if anyone's already mentioned this, but I've noticed a pretty big plot hole: Abigail's family don't age.

Um, yes, they do. Abigail's sister ages noticeably between her second and first appearances -- she's in her twenties or early thirties in the second scene and at least in her sixties in the first scene. She is, as noted by prior posters, played by two different actresses. Her husband in the second scene is played by an actor who is not even present in the scene at the beginning, and the man in the first scene does not appear in the second scene. The little girl in the first scene does not appear in the second scene. You seem to be a bit confused because the little boy in the family played both Abigail's son (in the second scene) and grandson (in the first scene).

 

[Neroon]

That was one of many things I hated about the film, but I loved it here for one simple reason: I saw the whole situation (especially the opening sequence) as having a laugh at the film.

Having a laugh or tipping a hat?

Taking the piss I think. The tip of the hat was the reference to "Galaxy Class".

My impression is that all of these references were simply a nod of sorts to Trek, perhaps a playful jab
- term "galaxy class"
- the "lens flare"
- the overall look of the bridge set
- the black character having an ocular eyepiece when nobody else seemed to.

 

[HighteeHeller]

I had a bigger problem with the shark still being around. Do sharks live that long?

Other then that, i loved it!

 

[RoJoHen]

I had a bigger problem with the shark still being around. Do sharks live that long?

Flying sharks do.