A big hole, or a small hole, in STXI??

[Cheapjack]

One thing I've noticed about the wish list I've seen for STXI is the philosophy, or the message in it.

I saw Pirates of the Carribean recently, and it had absolutely no message whatsover, not even 'The Good Guy always wins one'. Neither did Fantastic Four.

Should STXI have a message? Would it be Star Trek without it? Is it an integral part of ST? Does anyone care?

Perhaps all this will die out.

 

[WillsBabe]

I like my Trek to have a message. I think modern audiences might be a bit jaded and cynical about messages, but I think they are important in a Trek film. If there is a message, though, I hope it's suble, discreet and not just black and white. That would be good. Also, a bit of ambiguity would be nice, too. Let the audience make up their own mind.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I want it to be about something. Do I want a message say like "racism is bad" or "save the environment"? Not really. The theme ofthe importance of friendship or something like that would be alright.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Cheapjack said:
Neither did Fantastic Four.

The importance of teamwork?

Understand the alien in order to defeat him, and discover he's not necessarily the enemy?

ST XI will have several messages, rest assured.

 

[RoJoHen]

Teamwork...friendship...loyalty...honor...

I don't think it needs a discreet message, but some nice themes would be a good thing.

 

[Cheapjack]

Your replies have given me a message... There is hope!!!

Normally, when I ask questions like this on other forums, the replies just depress me. A lot of people now don't seem to realise that ST is a morality tale, too.

They just seem to want prejudice and fuedalism in space, with lots of battles and fights.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"If you want to send a message, use Western Union."

Good stories mean something by nature. If the story is good, the audience will find messages because they want to.

 

[Starkers]

Therin of Andor said:

Cheapjack said:
Neither did Fantastic Four.

The importance of teamwork?

Understand the alien in order to defeat him, and discover he's not necessarily the enemy?

ST XI will have several messages, rest assured.

Plus FF had something of an anti Rendition/torture message as well. Quite (pleasently) surprised me.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This is true.

 

[Woulfe]

Any hole will be filled with cold hard cash sillies

125 - 150 Mill sould be enough to fill any holes.

Yes Trek should have a message for those that give a poop about that stuff, but for the 'mainstream' types you have to have lots of action and explosions for them.

We'll get both if we're really lucky

 

[ChristopherPike]

In my experience of childhood favourites returning after many years away, I'm sure the message will be "Be Careful What You Wish For" or "You Can Never Go Home Again".

 

[Kryton]

Time is the fire in which we burn. They haven't used that one yet!

What? Well, where the fuck was I?!?

 

[seigezunt]

ChristopherPike said:
In my experience of childhood favourites returning after many years away, I'm sure the message will be "Be Careful What You Wish For" or "You Can Never Go Home Again".

or "Bro's before Ho's"

 

[Cheapjack]

Starship Polaris said:
"If you want to send a message, use Western Union."

Good stories mean something by nature. If the story is good, the audience will find messages because they want to.

If you look up ST on Wikipedia and look up any interviews with Gene Roddenberry, you will see that ST was originally intended as a vehicle for making comments about humanity.

It could just exist as an action adventure tale, without all that, and it would be sad if it did, but it's not the end. That will come back in some form in the future, in some other format, if not ST.

 

[23skidoo]

From what I recall of Roddenberry's original philosophy, the very fact that Star Trek depicts a future for mankind - and a generally positive one at that - is in itself a strong message. Remember Trek was created during the era when no one was certain if they wouldn't make up the next morning and see mushroom clouds out their window.

In some respects that same message would be just as viable in a new TOS film, since today we're seeing Cold War-like storm clouds brewing and we're being kept in a perpetual state of panic over the environment (no fooling I know people who are convinced we'll all be dead in 10 years and I haven't heard rhetoric like that since 1981).

The question is whether mass audiences are interested in positive-looking SF. Certainly on TV it's been hit and miss; Doctor Who is doing well (at least in the UK) with it's positive messaging, yet Enterprise which also had a positive-future message (for the most part) didn't score with audiences. And other positive-future shows have likewise not necessarily done as well as they should. I'm going to include Firefly/Serenity in this. Yet dark shows like nuBSG do really well over here.

Ironically Trek's optimism often works against it. During ENT's run a lot of people here expressed frustration at it, stating it wasn't relevant to today's audiences (it was at the core of the whole pro-vs-con argument regarding Roddenberry's vision that first erupted around the time Picard became Locutus and Trek actually began incorporating darkness on a regular basis.) Sometimes it works against it in weird ways. I once read a fundamentalist Christian review of one of the Star Trek films -- I think it was Insurrection because I remember them writing about a sex scene in a hot tub... -- that gave the film a negative mark because of the fact it depicted a future for mankind without The Rapture having occurred. I guess you can't please everyone. (I tried to find the link to this review, which I read about 5 years ago, but it doesn't show up on Google anymore). I wish I had taped the kids religious news show that aired on Vision TV (a Canadian religious programming channel) back around 1991-92 where some kid did a review of TOS and basically said any Christians who watched it were going to hell. I'm not making that one up!

Cheers!

Alex

 

[xortex]

The situations and actions should impart the message, not some idle chatter or moralizing. The story should say something and speak to it, not to us necessarily. That inherent meaning will not be able to be expressed in words and should have a profound metaphysical meaning not just to us or the characters but to everything and everyone.

 

[bismarck_1892]

What's Trek without a message? Obviously, the underlying message of all Trek shows and movies (but especially the original Trek) is always about friendship and loyalty. However, a timely, well written script should have a statement about contemporary political and social issues. After all, that's what sci-fi, good sci-fi, does.

 

[bismarck_1892]

I agree, the message/theme should not only be in some momentary, silly, moralizing, chit-chat of the characters while they take a break from blowing things up. It should be part of the story, and in fact should guide the story itself.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Cheapjack said:
If you look up ST on Wikipedia and look up any interviews with Gene Roddenberry, you will see that ST was originally intended as a vehicle for making comments about humanity.

Well, certainly a Wikipedia article and self-serving after-the-fact remarks by a TV producer trump any real support - or lack of it - for all this pretension.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Starship Polaris said:

Cheapjack said:
If you look up ST on Wikipedia and look up any interviews with Gene Roddenberry, you will see that ST was originally intended as a vehicle for making comments about humanity.

Well, certainly a Wikipedia article and self-serving after-the-fact remarks by a TV producer trump any real support - or lack of it - for all this pretension.

That and the fact that anyone can edit it. They've had to lock almost every politicians page to keep their staff from deleting unfavorable things.

I can see some "commentary", but not all the time. What "comment" was Spock's Brain making? Remote control Vulcans are a good idea? That surgery is best dirrected by the patient? Sometimes it's about "fun".

I don't see why optimism wouldn't work though. honestly I think optimism would be a nice change from shit like Saw.