9 Famous Movie Villains Who Were Right All Along

[Snaploud]

7 of of the 9 villains are from SF/F films.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18417_the-lighter-side-dark-side-5-villains-who-were-good.html

It's an interesting list. Anybody disagree with their logic...?

 

[label]

I really only buy his logic on a couple. Rooney from Ferris Buehler he got right. A couple other were pulled out of context to look better than they were. That he even attempted to try it with Sauron from Lord of the Rings is ridiculous. He deceived everyone from the very beginning in a grab for power. He used orcs as war fodder and attempted to kill anyone who got in his way.....

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The Sauron idea has been around for a long time, and some aspects of it (such as the Orcs and free will) even Tolkien wrestled with. The theory is fine, insofar as it goes, but it relies on only what the films show us, which is very limited; we know that Sauron is evil only because people tell us that he's evil. The depths of Sauron's evil, like sinking Numenor and bending the world, go completely unmentioned in the films.

The best version of the Sauron theory comes from McSweeney's, with their Noam Chomsky/Howard Zinn audio commentary for The Fellowship of the Ring.

 

[saturn5]

Here's a couple more;

Cooper in Night of the Living Dead-he's just trying to save everyone and if they'd done what he'd said and hid in the basement they'd probably have all been ok

Little Bill in Unforgiven-he punishes the cowboys who cut up the hooker with a sound whipping and then tries to stop hired assassins from killing them

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I gotta agree with all of them (except #1 and #2 which are stretching things a bit), with a caveat about the Wicked Witch of the West - remember, she never existed at all. She was a product of Dorothy's subconscious and allowed her to process her fears and anxieties about growing up, so by being wicked, the WWW contributed positively to the successful integration of Dorothy's adult personality.

Or something along those lines. In any event, the WWW was "right" in that sense because she was necessary to the whole process and was an aspect of the protagonist's own persona.

You could make a good case for putting Palpatine on that list, simply by virtue of him being the only person in the galaxy with half a brain. If the Senate and the Jedi are really so stupid that they couldn't figure out his game or even suspect him until it was too late, they certainly should not be allowed to run any self-respecting galaxy.

 

[Myasishchev]

The rationale behind the human rebellion in the Matrix never was particularly evident to me, either. Personally, if I were an awakened human, the most I would ever demand is better conditions within the Matrix. The best possible outcome--ruling a dead planet--would never occur to me to be worth a war.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I don't agree with any of them although he had something going with The Wicked Witch of the West. The main problem with his thesis is blaming Dorothy for everything when in fact it was all Glinda's fault.

 

[Skellington]

Someone should do the same for TV SF.

 

[Christopher]

I think the Ferris Bueller criticism is missing the point of the film (though I've only seen parts of the film so I'm not 100% certain). Yes, nominally Bueller was breaking the rules and Rooney was simply trying to enforce them. But my impression is that the point of the film is that Bueller and his friends learned more by skipping school and seeking out experience on their own terms (including things like a trip to the museum) than they did by submitting to the rote conformity of a school system that all too often only pretends to educate. So it wasn't so much saying Rooney was a bad guy as critiquing the whole educational system.

 

[Switch]

I think the Ferris Bueller criticism is missing the point of the film (though I've only seen parts of the film so I'm not 100% certain). Yes, nominally Bueller was breaking the rules and Rooney was simply trying to enforce them. But my impression is that the point of the film is that Bueller and his friends learned more by skipping school and seeking out experience on their own terms (including things like a trip to the museum) than they did by submitting to the rote conformity of a school system that all too often only pretends to educate. So it wasn't so much saying Rooney was a bad guy as critiquing the whole educational system.

Or maybe it was just a shit film.

 

[Trent Roman]

The real problem is that the article overlooks that methods and executions are as important, and I dare say even more important, than intentions. You could carry that argument to any number of franchises--say, the Empire is trying to bring peace to a galaxy in chaos, Khan is looking to get revenge on the guy he thinks killed his wife (the motive of a great number of regular 'heroes'), etc.--if you ignore that a large part of what makes a villain a villain is that they prosecute their goals in callous, brutal ways, oblivious to ethics or decency. (Am I taking this too seriously? I might be taking this too seriously...)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I think the Ferris Bueller criticism is missing the point of the film.

You mean that Ferris Bueller isn't a delusion by Cameron to help him cope with a shitty life, and Ferris is just a figment of his imagination?

 

[JediKnightButler]

I gotta agree with all of them (except #1 and #2 which are stretching things a bit), with a caveat about the Wicked Witch of the West - remember, she never existed at all. She was a product of Dorothy's subconscious and allowed her to process her fears and anxieties about growing up, so by being wicked, the WWW contributed positively to the successful integration of Dorothy's adult personality.

Or something along those lines. In any event, the WWW was "right" in that sense because she was necessary to the whole process and was an aspect of the protagonist's own persona.

You could make a good case for putting Palpatine on that list, simply by virtue of him being the only person in the galaxy with half a brain. If the Senate and the Jedi are really so stupid that they couldn't figure out his game or even suspect him until it was too late, they certainly should not be allowed to run any self-respecting galaxy.

Timothy Zahn's "Outbound Flight" sort of retconned Palpatine's motivations for aspiring to destroy the Jedi and form the Empire as being concerned about militarizing the galaxy to defend it against an eventual Yuuzhan Vong incursion, which is another reason that Doriana insisted that Thrawn help them destroy Outbound Flight-to which Thrawn eventually agreed. Of course, while we all know that the Yuuzhan Vong did invade the galaxy, I'm pretty sure that defending the galaxy against the Yuuzhan Vong by helping topple the Jedi Order and turning the Republic into his own personal Empire was an afterthought at best

 

[Snaploud]

I gotta agree with all of them (except #1 and #2 which are stretching things a bit), with a caveat about the Wicked Witch of the West - remember, she never existed at all. She was a product of Dorothy's subconscious and allowed her to process her fears and anxieties about growing up, so by being wicked, the WWW contributed positively to the successful integration of Dorothy's adult personality.

Or something along those lines. In any event, the WWW was "right" in that sense because she was necessary to the whole process and was an aspect of the protagonist's own persona.

You could make a good case for putting Palpatine on that list, simply by virtue of him being the only person in the galaxy with half a brain. If the Senate and the Jedi are really so stupid that they couldn't figure out his game or even suspect him until it was too late, they certainly should not be allowed to run any self-respecting galaxy.

Timothy Zahn's "Outbound Flight" sort of retconned Palpatine's motivations for aspiring to destroy the Jedi and form the Empire as being concerned about militarizing the galaxy to defend it against an eventual Yuuzhan Vong incursion, which is another reason that Doriana insisted that Thrawn help them destroy Outbound Flight-to which Thrawn eventually agreed. Of course, while we all know that the Yuuzhan Vong did invade the galaxy, I'm pretty sure that defending the galaxy against the Yuuzhan Vong by helping topple the Jedi Order and turning the Republic into his own personal Empire was an afterthought at best

I've never heard of the Yuuzhan Vong, but I assume that it would be easier to protect the galaxy with the jedi remaining alive.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Little Bill in Unforgiven-he punishes the cowboys who cut up the hooker with a sound whipping and then tries to stop hired assassins from killing them

I think the whole point of the movie is that Little Bill wasn't really a villain... more of an antagonist. Eastwood's and Freeman's characters weren't heroes either.

 

[IndyJones]

I don't agree with any of them although he had something going with The Wicked Witch of the West. The main problem with his thesis is blaming Dorothy for everything when in fact it was all Glinda's fault.

The Wicked Witch thing is really just kind of developed from the plot of the book Wicked by Gregory Maguire (I've no idea if it's actually older than that), where the witch is just a victim of anti-green racism and Dorothy is really a horrible bitch.

But my impression is that the point of the film is that Bueller and his friends learned more by skipping school and seeking out experience on their own terms (including things like a trip to the museum) than they did by submitting to the rote conformity of a school system that all too often only pretends to educate.

Well maybe, but only because their day off took place in some sort of amazing time warp where Sloane started off the day in school, got called out of class for a phone call that her grandmother had died, waited for her "Dad" to pick her up, drove into Chicago from the north shore, parked the car in a garage, went out for lunch at a classy restaurant, visited the top of the Sears Tower, toured the Stock Exchange and the Art Institute of Chicago, went to a Cubs game, marched in a parade, drove back to the suburbs and Cameron's house, destroyed the Ferrari, and hung out at the pool all before dinner.

If Shermer High School had access to that technology I'd imagine the kids would have been abole to learn a lot there too.

 

[Switch]

Eh, maybe not a traditional villain as such, but most folks' seeing Antichrist seem to assume that Woman is the villain, just because she allows her kid to die, stomps on Man's balls and puts a bolt through his leg and is otherwise quite evidently off her fucking rocker. As tempting as it is to interpret the film in this way - and then lambast it for being misogynist - it simply doesn't hold up upon closer examination. Indeed, I would argue that Man is the real - and not at all unambiguous - villain of the film.

 

[Skellington]

^ This sounds like an interesting film - and I'm speaking as a (relativiely) red-blooded male.

 

[Switch]

^ This sounds like an interesting film - and I'm speaking as a (relativiely) red-blooded male.

It is a very interesting film, working with themes of gender, science, religion and philosophy against a backdrop of horror and sexual violence. Gorgeous cinematography, great script and courageous performances by Charlotte Gainsbourg and Willem Dafoe.

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw03QayJ2fU

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Someone should do the same for TV SF.

Scorpius is the top of my list!

Also, there's a strong argument to be made that the Dominion was the victim of Federation blundering and imperialism so reflexive that they aren't even aware of it.

I gotta agree with all of them (except #1 and #2 which are stretching things a bit), with a caveat about the Wicked Witch of the West - remember, she never existed at all. She was a product of Dorothy's subconscious and allowed her to process her fears and anxieties about growing up, so by being wicked, the WWW contributed positively to the successful integration of Dorothy's adult personality.

Or something along those lines. In any event, the WWW was "right" in that sense because she was necessary to the whole process and was an aspect of the protagonist's own persona.

You could make a good case for putting Palpatine on that list, simply by virtue of him being the only person in the galaxy with half a brain. If the Senate and the Jedi are really so stupid that they couldn't figure out his game or even suspect him until it was too late, they certainly should not be allowed to run any self-respecting galaxy.

Timothy Zahn's "Outbound Flight" sort of retconned Palpatine's motivations for aspiring to destroy the Jedi and form the Empire as being concerned about militarizing the galaxy to defend it against an eventual Yuuzhan Vong incursion, which is another reason that Doriana insisted that Thrawn help them destroy Outbound Flight-to which Thrawn eventually agreed. Of course, while we all know that the Yuuzhan Vong did invade the galaxy, I'm pretty sure that defending the galaxy against the Yuuzhan Vong by helping topple the Jedi Order and turning the Republic into his own personal Empire was an afterthought at best

I've never heard of the Yuuzhan Vong, but I assume that it would be easier to protect the galaxy with the jedi remaining alive.

Maybe everything that happened in the PT was Palps testing the Jedi to see if they were on the ball enough to be any use in a fight against the Yuuzhan Vong. They failed miserably, so he just cleaned house.

Here's the ultimate the-villain-was-right movie (which is itself a spoiler, so I'll code it):

Spoiler: click to find out what movie

Frailty.