8-bit returns!

[Jadzia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13201254

Computer collector John Honniball shows how to recreate a computer from days gone by.

Is it still possible to construct an 8-bit machine from a pile of parts?

Programmer and "maker" Julian Skidmore has done just that with his creation of a novel 8-bit computer called the Fignition. Even better, his homebrew machine is designed to DIY. Anyone with a modicum of experience in electronics should be able to put it together.

It's interesting how the 8-bit era is becoming increasingly popular. News stories like this seem to be popping up more and more frequently. Whether it's the 80's style enclosures for new Intel Atom based PCs, or electronic synthesizers made out of commodore-64s, or emulation software. Interest may still be a minority, but it is certainly is a growing minority.

I know how much fun 8-bit was: it was a specific feeling that doesn't seem to happen with modern technology. I think a lot of people felt that, can still remember that feeling, and want to feel it again.

 

[ITL]

^ I always enjoyed working with the limitations of the hardware. I was no coder (apart a few little assembler tricks a friend taught me) but I spent a lot of time writing music on my C64. Three channels, filter sweeps, arpeggios, white noise for percussion. Wonderful! Now, I have multi synth emulation and as many samples and tracks as I like - which is very cool - but there's just something about getting the most from a three channel sound chip that can't be beat.

And the C64 could generate some amazing analogue-esque synth sounds. Oh yeah.

 

[Jadzia]

ITL, are you interested in analogue synths too? Because there's been a bit of a resurrection of that music in recent times, with people producing stuff with things like the TR808 and TB303.

Here's one example:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLqAQQ5frv4[/yt]

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I think 8-bit computers were the last generation in which a regular person could really wrap their arms fully around the hardware and tap its capabilities. Today's computers are exceedingly powerful by comparison and so I think you don't have that personal connection to it. Plus, computing has evolved to the point where individual computers are disposable and you aren't really tethered to a single one anymore. Not so in the '80s, when you dropped a serious chunk of change on a computer you were likely to use for 5-10 years, and had few options for moving your data to another one. I think you ended up with a much more personal relationship as a result of that--you were, in many ways, "committed" to that computer.

 

[ITL]

ITL, are you interested in analogue synths too? Because there's been a bit of a resurrection of that music in recent times, with people producing stuff with things like the TR808 and TB303.

Oh, I love analogue synths! I had a TB303 emulator on my PC a while back - great fun! I remember back in the late 80's a lot of people were getting their 303's retrofitted with MIDI so that they could get them working in synch with their digital MIDI drum machines. They needed that analogue sound!

I think 8-bit computers were the last generation in which a regular person could really wrap their arms fully around the hardware and tap its capabilities. Today's computers are exceedingly powerful by comparison and so I think you don't have that personal connection to it. Plus, computing has evolved to the point where individual computers are disposable and you aren't really tethered to a single one anymore. Not so in the '80s, when you dropped a serious chunk of change on a computer you were likely to use for 5-10 years, and had few options for moving your data to another one. I think you ended up with a much more personal relationship as a result of that--you were, in many ways, "committed" to that computer.

Got to agree with that.

 

[Santaman]

I doubt that was an analog synth, sounds more like a an old FM synthesis Yamaha which in the 80's used the same OPL chips as many soundcards..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=-CQfO99172w

^^ Now THOSE are analog, you can spot a Modular Moog standing around (a system 55 ME WANT!) and an ARP 2500, two 2600's, a Memory Moog, a boat load of AKS's and VCS3's a Mellotron and a few Eminent 310U's

I wouldn't mind having a collection like Jarre.

As for 8-bitters, I've got two C-64's an Atari 65XR, an 800XL and two MSX-1 machines of which one never has been used, I do like the 8-bit era but I'm more the XT era person..

 

[Robert Maxwell]

For what it's worth, the sound chip from the Commodore 64 is actually still quite popular among computer synth enthusiasts. "Chiptunes" really stir up my nostalgia for the '80s.

But not for the hair, fashions, and Reagan. Just the simplicity and surprising flexibility of the computers of that era.

 

[ITL]

For what it's worth, the sound chip from the Commodore 64 is actually still quite popular among computer synth enthusiasts. "Chiptunes" really stir up my nostalgia for the '80s.

You can make a SID chip go
"NNNNNEEEEOOOOWWWWWWHHHHUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM"
like the intro of Tom Sawyer. It is therefore awesome.

 

[Santaman]

^^ indeed, the fashion and some other stuff from the 80's is cringe worthy.. also, in the 80's they started to phase out analogs for IMNSHO crappy digital synths.. meh.. eww..

I know chip tunes well and of course the demo scene music which was made with trackers on Amiga, C-64 PC and so on, the Future Crew was legendary.. ah those were the days.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I remember being impressed by the music from the original Unreal, in that it was done by actual demoscene folks. It had some real cred there.

 

[Santaman]

Both by the Future Crew:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_aUxbbqWU
The Second reality demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGtPAhkEQU&f
Unreal demo

Oh and Fishtro! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyzMYzwA6G8

Dope by Complex, this one has one of the most elaborate tracker songs I've ever seen, a 32 channel MOD..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yJ5M3BY2Ts&

I still have some machines from that era... including a i486 DX-2 66Mhz

 

[Jadzia]

I remember being impressed by the music from the original Unreal, in that it was done by actual demoscene folks. It had some real cred there.

necros was the most famous I think. I actually contacted him a couple of years ago to use some of his music in one of my games, and he was kind enough to say 'yes'

 

[ITL]

I use VICE for my C64 emulation needs, these days. You can even get virtual versions of the Expert and Action Replay cartridges for it.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I remember being impressed by the music from the original Unreal, in that it was done by actual demoscene folks. It had some real cred there.

necros was the most famous I think. I actually contacted him a couple of years ago to use some of his music in one of my games, and he was kind enough to say 'yes'

Yeah, I've always heard Necros (aka Andrew Sega) is a pretty cool guy.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Check out some of the stuff these guys do

http://grayscale.scene.pl/msx_archive.php?lang=en

it is 'teh' awesome.

 

[Jadzia]

I think 8-bit computers were the last generation in which a regular person could really wrap their arms fully around the hardware and tap its capabilities.

-- The fixed hardware specification meant that everyone had the same thing. There was no better or worse version. There was no benchmarking. You either had the computer or you didn't.

-- There was never any risk of corrupting the system, because the OS was stored in ROM. There were no tedious things to install or manage. The computer was never deficient in some library or driver because there weren't any. If an application worked on one machine, it worked on them all, out of the box.

-- The boot time was literally 2 seconds. There was nothing to "shut down", and having to reboot was never painful. In fact it was as painless as pressing the close button on a window in a modern OS.

-- Single threading meant that applications always run full speed. The computer never slowed down because it was doing something stupid in the background. It was never sluggish. It felt steady and reliable. You got full control of memory and cpu. You felt like you were in control.

-- We had pixels, and pixels were fun! While the fixed palettes, the fixed system font, and the fixed operating system helped to give the computer it's own personality.

-- Except for the odd game that wanted a password upon loading, there was no DRM or other paranoia.

-- There was no security. The computer did exactly what it was told, which combined with the above made it a care-free machine. That surely drew contrast with the politics of the day, which was in the midst of the unpopular Reagan/Thatcher era.

 

[ITL]

I found a freeware chiptracker for Windows: [click] There's quite a few out there, but this one looks good. SID chip style sounds, but with 8 channels instead of 3. Time to put my music trousers on!

 

[Robert Maxwell]

If any of you have a Nintendo DS, try the Korg DS-10 program. It has a very 8-bit sound. Here is a song I made with it. It's a lot of fun!

 

[Santaman]

I think 8-bit computers were the last generation in which a regular person could really wrap their arms fully around the hardware and tap its capabilities.

-- The fixed hardware specification meant that everyone had the same thing. There was no better or worse version. There was no benchmarking. You either had the computer or you didn't.

-- There was never any risk of corrupting the system, because the OS was stored in ROM. There were no tedious things to install or manage. The computer was never deficient in some library or driver because there weren't any. If an application worked on one machine, it worked on them all, out of the box.

-- The boot time was literally 2 seconds. There was nothing to "shut down", and having to reboot was never painful. In fact it was as painless as pressing the close button on a window in a modern OS.

-- Single threading meant that applications always run full speed. The computer never slowed down because it was doing something stupid in the background. It was never sluggish. It felt steady and reliable. You got full control of memory and cpu. You felt like you were in control.

-- We had pixels, and pixels were fun! While the fixed palettes, the fixed system font, and the fixed operating system helped to give the computer it's own personality.

-- Except for the odd game that wanted a password upon loading, there was no DRM or other paranoia.

-- There was no security. The computer did exactly what it was told, which combined with the above made it a care-free machine. That surely drew contrast with the politics of the day, which was in the midst of the unpopular Reagan/Thatcher era.

Not entirely, the vastly more powerful Atari ST series, for example, was a 16/32 bit machine with its OS in ROM, fixed specs (for the most part) and gave you just as much control as an 8 bitter, same goes for the IBM XT which also has an OS in ROM (BASIC)

As for 8-bitters never sluggish? umm, forget that.. ever tried loading something from tape? after 15 minutes listeing to screeching noises it would belch out an error at 99% and you'd be forced to rewind the %$!@$#!$!@!! tape and try again.

Also: fixed hardware specs? Not really, boards went through revisions, chips changed over time, something here was cut away, something there added and within a few years you'd end up with a machine that was only about 90% compatible with the previous version..

So it might seem that it was a simpler world back then but it really wasn't..

 

[Jadzia]

Not entirely, the vastly more powerful Atari ST series, for example, was a 16/32 bit machine with its OS in ROM, fixed specs (for the most part) and gave you just as much control as an 8 bitter, same goes for the IBM XT which also has an OS in ROM (BASIC)

A lot of what I listed to true of 16-bit as well, but it's still true of 8-bit

As for 8-bitters never sluggish?

In the context I wrote that, never sluggish means much the same as steady ~ ie, your application always gets the full power of the cpu because other things are not happening in the background.

It was so steady infact that games didn't need to manage time. They could rely on the game code being processed by the cpu at a steady reliable rate, and that alone provided steady timing.

Also: fixed hardware specs? Not really, boards went through revisions

I have no knowledge of revisions, so I may have made an error there. I expect most of those revisions were to improve efficiency, and fix hardware design bugs, rather than make significant additions to the architecture.

So it might seem that it was a simpler world back then but it really wasn't..

I didn't say it was simpler, only that it was care-free. I know some things were more complicated.

But do you agree that modern technology seems unable to provide the pleasant feelings that many consider unique to 8-bit?