7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS)

[The Wormhole]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

I'm sorry, but I can not tolerate reset buttons. It's one of the laziest tropes around. Family Guy sums it up best when they refer to reset buttons as a "middle finger to the audience." And thta's exactly what this felt like. Unlike prvious Doctor Who reset like Last of the Time Lords, The Big Bang and The Wedding of River Song where the episode's main cast at least remembers everything after the reset, it would seem this is a full reset where no one remembers. Well, okay, it's kind of implied the Doctor is still aware of everything, but that's it. Clara forgot everything she learned in the TARDIS library including the Doctor's name (or I guess even that the Doctor has a name he keeps secret) and the salvaging brothers are still playing their cruel prank of making the young guy believe he's an android, though apparentally the middle brother is starting to stand up to the older one about picking on the android/little brother.

The tour of the TARDIS isn't all that impressive. For the most part everyone is just walking around the same corridor. Sure, we get glimpses of a telescope and the often spoken of swimming pool as well as seeing the library and engine room, but I don't know. I get they didn't want to go all fanwanky, but couldn't they have at least thrown in something more than Sylvester McCoy's umbrella and audio clips of Christopher Eccleston and Karen Gillan?

I don't know. I want to like this episode, but it just feels so pointless. It's not very often I call an episode of Doctor Who disappointing, and to be fair there are episodes worse than this. But damn, it really wasn't that good.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

I've been thinking about the episode and have downgraded it in my personal ranking from very disappointing to crap...

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

and the salvaging brothers are still playing their cruel prank of making the young guy believe he's an android, though apparentally the middle brother is starting to stand up to the older one about picking on the android/little brother.

Blimely... does everyone need everything spelling out via character dialogue? Go back, look at the photo at the start of the episode and then look at the one at the end...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

The Doctors past wasn't rewritten.

His future didn't happen.

That's completely different.

The only way the Timelord would remember that conversation is if the author is a sentimental git, or if the Future Doctor delivered a telepathic dump into the past Doctor's brain.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

they have ruined the eye of harmony, in the 96 film it was awesome, now it's just a fucking miniature sun. Why, WHY??????????

Uh, it was the TV Movie which changed the Eye of Harmony. It can be reconciled by believing that the one on the TARDIS is a mere link to the main one discovered by Omega and Rassilon though.

Why do you assume that that was a miniature sun?

It could have been a very big room.

 

[RevdKathy]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

I liked this ep better than most this season, though it was a bit pedantic. It did at least have a proper 'story-shape' to it. There was some silliness (the zombie monsters in particular) but it held together mostly.

The most important scene in the whole thing is the one in the TARDIS's "replicator" room. For that, the Doctor had to have someone with him to be talking to. Hence the need for a.n. other to be in this ep. The thing to remember through the whole of the rest of it is that what's in the TARDIS is what the TARDIS has made and chosen.

It startes with the crash... the Doctor blames himself. But the next words we hear inside the TARDIS are those of the 9th Doctor reminding us that the hoards of Gengis Khan can't prevail against the TARDIS doors. The crash happened because the TARDIS meant it to. More than ever we're reminded that for 900 years she's taken the Doctor where he needed to go (and seldom where he wanted to go!). Clara promptly burns her hand on a Thing. A TARDIS thing... made by the TARDIS for exactly that purpose.

There follows the romp around the interior. Yes, I was disappointed at the lack of old control rooms. But let's be realistic: they decommissioned the 2005 interior and exterior as inadequate for HD filming. Some of the sets we're talking about were built for black and white TV with 405 lines. I doubt they'd be usable! (Though many do exist still in the exhibition). The glimpse of the swimming pool was a nice nod, but sadly still no bathroom. Nor a look at Rory and Amy's room with the bunk beds, which would have been nice.

Then Clara finds the library. With a stonking great book on a lectern. I was unsure at this point if we'd stumbled into Narnia and were about to make the Dufflepuds visible or were in an attic with Bastion reading the Neverending Story. Had we been in Wonderland, it would have had "Read Me" written on the covers in gold letters. And Clara, being chased by scary monsters and lost in the bowels of the TARDIS stops and takes the time to read a big book. Honestly? (One of the more unbelieavable bits IMHO). The book, like everything else, is made by the TARDIS. (Remember the key scene... she can make anything) Who else survived the Time War? The Doctor would hardly write his memoirs and include all his secrets, and leave it lying around for companions to read, even if an autobiography might assuage his survivor guilt. The other Time Lords are Time locked, and the Daleks have never struck me as the literary creative type (Dictate! Dictate!) The only other 'person' to get out alive is the TARDIS herself. And who else knows all the Doctor's secrets?

The scene with the Eye of Harmony and the scary monsters was the weakest bit (and a sop to those who like big visuals I suppose). I can't imagine any process that would leave one alive with red glowy eyes (apart from a political poster or two). But at this point our extras have become redundant, and we have to get rid of them.

There follows the one-to-one with the Doctor and Clara... of which everyone is crying foul that she lost her character development at the end. Excuse me? This isn't about Clara. The key item here is the Doctor's discovery. The empathic woman last week told him Clara is just an ordinary human being... finally the penny drops and he accepts it. Clara - this Clara at least - is just an ordinary person. Exactly how or even if she relates to the other Claras is still to be explored (and there were hints about blood kinship calling through time last week). But Clara is no mystery.

So, development done, time to round it off. With a hearty fun-poke at the people who complain about episodes having a reset button by using a genuine Big Button. Only this one is NOT a reset button. The purpose of the Salvage Bros is surely to shout loud and clear that things are not quite as they were. The reset is partial, mostly, but not quite the same. We have moved on. The Doctor tries to do something clever, throwing the button into the time crack, before realising that this is the work of the TARDIS (in Wonderland, the button would be maked "Push Me"). She has set the whole thing up for her own purpose, and now is setting such bits as she chooses back.

As for Clara, you can't signal more clearly that she's not quite the same than by having her wearing something completely different. Exactly how much she remembers from the Big Book remains to be scene. But she's not quite who she was. And the Doctor's understanding of her has changed.

Now, exactly why the TARDIS wanted all that is the interesting question. I just hope Moffat doesn't do his usual trick of throwing up a load of questions and then abandoning them in favour of something shinier.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

The other thing people seem to be missing about the 'reset' is that Clara has been swimming at the end - why do people think the swimming pool was one of the rooms we saw earlier? or that she is carrying a towel and is in an entirely different outfit at the end?

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

I liked this ep better than most this season, though it was a bit pedantic. It did at least have a proper 'story-shape' to it. There was some silliness (the zombie monsters in particular) but it held together mostly.

The most important scene in the whole thing is the one in the TARDIS's "replicator" room. For that, the Doctor had to have someone with him to be talking to. Hence the need for a.n. other to be in this ep. The thing to remember through the whole of the rest of it is that what's in the TARDIS is what the TARDIS has made and chosen.

It startes with the crash... the Doctor blames himself. But the next words we hear inside the TARDIS are those of the 9th Doctor reminding us that the hoards of Gengis Khan can't prevail against the TARDIS doors. The crash happened because the TARDIS meant it to. More than ever we're reminded that for 900 years she's taken the Doctor where he needed to go (and seldom where he wanted to go!). Clara promptly burns her hand on a Thing. A TARDIS thing... made by the TARDIS for exactly that purpose.

There follows the romp around the interior. Yes, I was disappointed at the lack of old control rooms. But let's be realistic: they decommissioned the 2005 interior and exterior as inadequate for HD filming. Some of the sets we're talking about were built for black and white TV with 405 lines. I doubt they'd be usable! (Though many do exist still in the exhibition). The glimpse of the swimming pool was a nice nod, but sadly still no bathroom. Nor a look at Rory and Amy's room with the bunk beds, which would have been nice.

Then Clara finds the library. With a stonking great book on a lectern. I was unsure at this point if we'd stumbled into Narnia and were about to make the Dufflepuds visible or were in an attic with Bastion reading the Neverending Story. Had we been in Wonderland, it would have had "Read Me" written on the covers in gold letters. And Clara, being chased by scary monsters and lost in the bowels of the TARDIS stops and takes the time to read a big book. Honestly? (One of the more unbelieavable bits IMHO). The book, like everything else, is made by the TARDIS. (Remember the key scene... she can make anything) Who else survived the Time War? The Doctor would hardly write his memoirs and include all his secrets, and leave it lying around for companions to read, even if an autobiography might assuage his survivor guilt. The other Time Lords are Time locked, and the Daleks have never struck me as the literary creative type (Dictate! Dictate!) The only other 'person' to get out alive is the TARDIS herself. And who else knows all the Doctor's secrets?

The scene with the Eye of Harmony and the scary monsters was the weakest bit (and a sop to those who like big visuals I suppose). I can't imagine any process that would leave one alive with red glowy eyes (apart from a political poster or two). But at this point our extras have become redundant, and we have to get rid of them.

There follows the one-to-one with the Doctor and Clara... of which everyone is crying foul that she lost her character development at the end. Excuse me? This isn't about Clara. The key item here is the Doctor's discovery. The empathic woman last week told him Clara is just an ordinary human being... finally the penny drops and he accepts it. Clara - this Clara at least - is just an ordinary person. Exactly how or even if she relates to the other Claras is still to be explored (and there were hints about blood kinship calling through time last week). But Clara is no mystery.

So, development done, time to round it off. With a hearty fun-poke at the people who complain about episodes having a reset button by using a genuine Big Button. Only this one is NOT a reset button. The purpose of the Salvage Bros is surely to shout loud and clear that things are not quite as they were. The reset is partial, mostly, but not quite the same. We have moved on. The Doctor tries to do something clever, throwing the button into the time crack, before realising that this is the work of the TARDIS (in Wonderland, the button would be maked "Push Me"). She has set the whole thing up for her own purpose, and now is setting such bits as she chooses back.

As for Clara, you can't signal more clearly that she's not quite the same than by having her wearing something completely different. Exactly how much she remembers from the Big Book remains to be scene. But she's not quite who she was. And the Doctor's understanding of her has changed.

Now, exactly why the TARDIS wanted all that is the interesting question. I just hope Moffat doesn't do his usual trick of throwing up a load of questions and then abandoning them in favour of something shinier.

Interesting thoughts on the episode. I hope you're right on the actual direction this is heading. And it seems preaching on Sunday Morning pushes you towards a Guy Gardener style of consciousness, though you make much more sense.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Just watched it. Really good episode with a really lousy ending. Whatever happened to "never cross your own time-line"?!

 

[Venardhi]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

When the alternative is death, such rules tend not to go enforced.

 

[ATimson]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

When the alternative is death, such rules tend not to go enforced.

Except it's not the Doctor who does the enforcing, necessarily (see: "Father's Day")!

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

The book, like everything else, is made by the TARDIS. (Remember the key scene... she can make anything) Who else survived the Time War? The Doctor would hardly write his memoirs and include all his secrets, and leave it lying around for companions to read, even if an autobiography might assuage his survivor guilt. The other Time Lords are Time locked, and the Daleks have never struck me as the literary creative type (Dictate! Dictate!) The only other 'person' to get out alive is the TARDIS herself. And who else knows all the Doctor's secrets?

A very interesting observation. I might add that if knowledge of the Doctor's name is so critical, he wouldn't keep in a place so easy to find.

I hope that Clara remembers what she read in the book. And I hope we hear about it again soon. I am still slightly annoyed that the Doctor interrupted her before we had a chance to hear what she had to say about it. Her thoughts on the Doctor's role in the Time War mean a little more than an improvised zombie chase.

I can't imagine any process that would leave one alive with red glowy eyes (apart from a political poster or two).

And suddenly stopped acting like themselves. I did not know death by sunburn made you violent and deadly. I thought it killed neural parasites and saved you from insanity.

The empathic woman last week told him Clara is just an ordinary human being... finally the penny drops and he accepts it. Clara - this Clara at least - is just an ordinary person.

We'll see what you'll be saying when it is revealed that Clara is a TARDIS.

 

[Venardhi]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Never said it would be. (See: every other time in the history of the show.)

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Clara promptly burns her hand on a Thing. A TARDIS thing... made by the TARDIS for exactly that purpose.

I didn't get this the first time but it was not a TARDIS thing. It was the magna-grab remote used by the Van Baalen Bros.

So, development done, time to round it off. With a hearty fun-poke at the people who complain about episodes having a reset button by using a genuine Big Button. Only this one is NOT a reset button. The purpose of the Salvage Bros is surely to shout loud and clear that things are not quite as they were. The reset is partial, mostly, but not quite the same. We have moved on. The Doctor tries to do something clever, throwing the button into the time crack, before realising that this is the work of the TARDIS (in Wonderland, the button would be maked "Push Me"). She has set the whole thing up for her own purpose, and now is setting such bits as she chooses back.

The Doctor engraved "BIG FRIENDLY BUTTON" with the Sonic Screwdriver.

I didn't realize the magnitude of the partial reset because in addition to the brother being kind at the end I had missed that the "android" brother was part of the family picture at the end. He was missing in the picture in the opening shot.

 

[RevdKathy]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Interesting thoughts on the episode. I hope you're right on the actual direction this is heading. And it seems preaching on Sunday Morning pushes you towards a Guy Gardener style of consciousness, though you make much more sense.

Ouch! Yeah, sorry for the typos and bad grammar. Not at my most coherant when the adrenalin is plummeting. Still, I think most of the analysis holds: this ep was driven by Sexy.

 

[RevdKathy]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

The book, like everything else, is made by the TARDIS. (Remember the key scene... she can make anything) Who else survived the Time War? The Doctor would hardly write his memoirs and include all his secrets, and leave it lying around for companions to read, even if an autobiography might assuage his survivor guilt. The other Time Lords are Time locked, and the Daleks have never struck me as the literary creative type (Dictate! Dictate!) The only other 'person' to get out alive is the TARDIS herself. And who else knows all the Doctor's secrets?

A very interesting observation. I might add that if knowledge of the Doctor's name is so critical, he wouldn't keep in a place so easy to find.

I hope that Clara remembers what she read in the book. And I hope we hear about it again soon. I am still slightly annoyed that the Doctor interrupted her before we had a chance to hear what she had to say about it. Her thoughts on the Doctor's role in the Time War mean a little more than an improvised zombie chase.

I can't imagine any process that would leave one alive with red glowy eyes (apart from a political poster or two).

And suddenly stopped acting like themselves. I did not know death by sunburn made you violent and deadly. I thought it killed neural parasites and saved you from insanity.

The empathic woman last week told him Clara is just an ordinary human being... finally the penny drops and he accepts it. Clara - this Clara at least - is just an ordinary person.

We'll see what you'll be saying when it is revealed that Clara is a TARDIS.

Oh I do so hope not. We've had Amy turn out to have been plastic for half a season, Rory be a living auton, the Doctor be a Doctor-machine, driven by a micro-doctor inside... I want the mystery of Clara to be that she's the only true mystery worth solving: an ordinary human being.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Interesting thoughts on the episode. I hope you're right on the actual direction this is heading. And it seems preaching on Sunday Morning pushes you towards a Guy Gardener style of consciousness, though you make much more sense.

Ouch! Yeah, sorry for the typos and bad grammar. Not at my most coherant when the adrenalin is plummeting. Still, I think most of the analysis holds: this ep was driven by Sexy.

I know. I thought it was an interesting analysis of the episode. Can only hope it's as coherent as you think it is.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Complete rubbish. Black people steal the Tardis, nothing interesting or that makes much sense happens inside, we're treated to more "Woah, who's Clara!!!!!!????" non-intrigue. Just dire really.

 

[SeerSGB]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Rated it "Good". Not up to what I was expecting, but I doubt they had to money to rebuild a couple of old console rooms, and show us more rooms.

- Would hav preferred that the zombies been something like failed regenerations of the doctor.

- I wonder if Sexy raised the future dead as a defense force. Otherwise, that just means that they were trapped at the moment before death and were stumbling around in agony.

- The Book; either created by Sexy or is River Song's diary, or something wrote by the Doctor and hidden away that Sexy wanted Clara to find.

- Eye of Harmony, I can accept this as being what was under the Cathedral from the '96 movie. I always thought that the eye was a a Black Hole that that all Tardis tied into, not a star on the verge of being one. Either it's always been that, or did the Doctor refit / change the Eye at some point to break free of the original Eye?

 

[ATimson]

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Eye of Harmony, I can accept this as being what was under the Cathedral from the '96 movie. I always thought that the eye was a a Black Hole that that all Tardis tied into, not a star on the verge of being one. Either it's always been that, or did the Doctor refit / change the Eye at some point to break free of the original Eye?

He probably lost access to the original Eye when Gallifrey was time-locked; we know that during the first few years post-Time War, he had to refuel at the Cardiff Rift. It could be that the TARDIS gained a standalone Eye either when the TARDIS regenerated in "The Eleventh Hour" or when the universe regenerated in "The Big Bang".