6.5x08 Let's Kill Hitler (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[G2309]

Hitler was there so that the Time Police can turn their attentions to Melody Pond as they consider her a worse criminal than Hitler.

Yeh that was a surpise comparison.
They don't appear to take into account she was programed to kill the Dr. This seems to be more than brainwashing as she she grew up with Amy who was positive about the Dr.

 

[Thestral]

Perhaps a reference to the Mossad assassins after the Munich bombing? Or since the robot was after war criminals, Adolf Eichmann.

That's indeed what I meant. If there's somebody cool enough to employ time-travelling shapeshifting robots in a war-criminal-hunting business, it must be Mossad. And I must say I liked the whole idea a lot, it's strong enough to carry its own series. The idea itself is awesome; it's just execution that sucked a bit.

I'm not sure that "cool" is the right word myself... though certainly execution is.

 

[Starkers]

We need to find our daughter. No, wait, we don't, she's a token black now, and she also happens to be our childhood pal. And look, she regenerated into a middle-aged woman and the shape-shifting robotic Mossad assassin is after her. Groovy... not. Isn't there something more interesting to play with?

... shape-shifting robotic Mossad assassin? What was so Israeli about the robot pilots?

Like, I dunno, goatdamned Hitler in the cupboard?

You know, I really don't know what a show that's primarily aimed at children can really do with Adolf Hitler. That's such a huge, such a monumentally dark and weighty and horrible thing, I really don't know if it would even be appropriate for Doctor Who to make an earnest effort to tackle the Third Reich. You can't really do Downfall on a kid's show. That's the sort of thing that's more appropriate for programs aimed at adults.

Like Allo Allo...

We Brits, long ago we realised the best way to tackle any monsterous, evil bastard was to take the piss out of them

 

[danellis]

BEST POST EVER!!!

dJE

 

[Professor Zoom]

We need to find our daughter. No, wait, we don't, she's a token black now, and she also happens to be our childhood pal. And look, she regenerated into a middle-aged woman and the shape-shifting robotic Mossad assassin is after her. Groovy... not. Isn't there something more interesting to play with?

... shape-shifting robotic Mossad assassin? What was so Israeli about the robot pilots?

Like, I dunno, goatdamned Hitler in the cupboard?

You know, I really don't know what a show that's primarily aimed at children can really do with Adolf Hitler. That's such a huge, such a monumentally dark and weighty and horrible thing, I really don't know if it would even be appropriate for Doctor Who to make an earnest effort to tackle the Third Reich. You can't really do Downfall on a kid's show. That's the sort of thing that's more appropriate for programs aimed at adults.

Like Allo Allo...

We Brits, long ago we realised the best way to tackle any monsterous, evil bastard was to take the piss out of them

Hey now, we Americans gave the world The Producers and Spring Time for Hitler... which DID come out before 'Allo 'Allo.

 

[Thestral]

Not to mention The Great Dictator before all of them.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Not to mention The Great Dictator before all of them.

word.

Though Chaplin was a Brit...

 

[propita]

Not only was River considered worse than Hitler, Mels (and River in AGMGTW) compared the Doctor actions as bad as Hitler. Not directly by impliedly.

 

[Whofan]

Some of the novels and audios (Targeted more at an adult fan than the show's general audience) deal with World War II a bit more directly and seriously.

 

[David cgc]

That leads to an interesting point. In the Pandorica episodes and "A Good Man," they made the point that the Doctor had become such a bad ass that people were becoming scared of him, viewing him as a dreadful, monstrous thing. But then we've got "Let's Kill Hitler," where the tiny little arbiters of right and wrong think that killing the Doctor and apparently doing little else makes someone literally worse than Hitler. So as much of a bad reputation as the Doctor has been developing, he also has people on the other side who practically worship him.

Hm. That could be how the Silence could be at war with the Doctor without him even fully realizing it. Maybe their mostly at war with his fanbase.

 

[Ghost Bones]

This was the worst episode in the whole history of Doctor Who, beating even A Good Man Goes to War. The point where new Who disappeared up itself completely while giving old Who a few knocks around the face for bad measure. It's actually had me missing RTD.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Hardly the worst episode ever. Let's not forget atrocities as The Gunslingers, The Dominators, Revenge of the Cybermen, Warriors of the Deep, Time of the Rani, and "The Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," just to name a few.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Hardly the worst episode ever. Let's not forget atrocities as The Gunslingers, The Dominators, Revenge of the Cybermen, Warriors of the Deep, Time of the Rani, and "The Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," just to name a few.

It's worse than all of those. Don't get me wrong, some of those are absolutely dreadful (though I've always had a soft spot for Warriors at least). There's been several 0/10 episodes before in my view (especially from new Who), but Let's Kill Hitler (and to a lesser extent AGMGTW) is the single worst DW story ever due to what it means the show has become. Watching those two episodes made me truly think for the first time that DW might be unsalvageable. Of course, The Girl Who Waited has come along and made me believe good stories may still be possible, but even then I can't help feeling DW can never really return to the show it used to be.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Hardly the worst episode ever. Let's not forget atrocities as The Gunslingers, The Dominators, Revenge of the Cybermen, Warriors of the Deep, Time of the Rani, and "The Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," just to name a few.

Ah, but why be reasonable when you can get a rise of people instead?

 

[Ghost Bones]

Hardly the worst episode ever. Let's not forget atrocities as The Gunslingers, The Dominators, Revenge of the Cybermen, Warriors of the Deep, Time of the Rani, and "The Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," just to name a few.

Ah, but why be reasonable when you can get a rise of people instead?

In non-condescending, I believe this translates as "Why have a different opinion?".

 

[Neroon]

Hardly the worst episode ever. Let's not forget atrocities as The Gunslingers, The Dominators, Revenge of the Cybermen, Warriors of the Deep, Time of the Rani, and "The Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks," just to name a few.

Ah, but why be reasonable when you can get a rise of people instead?

In non-condescending, I believe this translates as "Why have a different opinion?".

Let's stop the interpersonal stuff now. It never ends well, so please keep your focus on the episode.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Let's stop the interpersonal stuff now. It never ends well, so please keep your focus on the episode.

Oh yes. I'm sorry about that.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

That leads to an interesting point. In the Pandorica episodes and "A Good Man," they made the point that the Doctor had become such a bad ass that people were becoming scared of him, viewing him as a dreadful, monstrous thing. But then we've got "Let's Kill Hitler," where the tiny little arbiters of right and wrong think that killing the Doctor and apparently doing little else makes someone literally worse than Hitler.

Not to mention they seemed to dismiss the people afraid of him as religious nuts who may or may not being trying to destroy the universe.

 

[Count Zero]

Then possibly they shouldn't bring Hitler into play at all. Although I honestly believe there are ways to tackle it. The whole Nazi era is just delightfully creepy, scary and hopeless - and they end up using it as a backdrop for River Song running around in a SS jacket.

It wasn't a SS jacket, thank God. It was a jacket from a German airforce uniform.

I also apologize to anybody offended with the "token black" thing. I only meant to imply that the choice of actress (and, in extension, the whole idea of timelords being able to regenerate into different ethnicity) feels like a political decision, not a creative one - because they promptly killed Mels only minutes after arriving into the Nazi Germany, thus effectively wasting the immense coolness factor of a swashbuckling black woman in a SS jacket running around Nazi Berlin with a machine gun. Which is something I'd gladly pay to see.

How would that be cool? A black woman (or really anyone we're meant to see as sympathetic) wearing a SS uniform is, to me, rather disturbing imagery. That uniform does stand for a despicable ideology and unspeakable crimes committed in its name. I'd be careful to use it in any way that's supposed to make it look cool.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Not to mention The Great Dictator before all of them.

word.

Though Chaplin was a Brit...

Well, we could throw out The Three Stooges "You Nazty Spy!" from the same year.