5x013 The Big Bang (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Mr Awe]

Rubberbands didn't just spring into existence but were manufactured that way. I think saying that loops can't be created from a linear something is a bit silly. That doesn't rule out the possibility that there are also loops that were always loops. But, who cares, which leads me to . . .

My point is that that is all besides the point! The plot details as shown, including the paradoxes, can affect your enjoyment of the story. I think the paradoxes as seen (regardless of their exact origins) reduces my enjoyment slightly but I still thought it was a great ride!

Mr Awe

 

[Samurai8472]

It was much better then a Cell Phone network turning the Doctor from Yoda into a God.

He was DobbyDoctor! RTD didn't do all that work for people not to get the reference!


Also Doctor Who Rave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfJ1Qjdg_MY

 

[David cgc]

My first guess would that it would be an edit of all the strobe-flashes of the Vortex Manipulator set to a kicking techno beat.

 

[Sci]

I'm often amazed at how I seem to be the only person who liked the finale of "Last of the Time Lords." Takes all sorts!

 

[Tom]

If the Doctor ceased to be, the universe would end anyway - remember Logopolis?

It was the master who had disrupted logopolis, and the master was only there because he was trying to get rid of the Doctor.

 

[Tom]

I'm often amazed at how I seem to be the only person who liked the finale of "Last of the Time Lords." Takes all sorts!

Sad thing is Utopia is beats LOTL hands down. Sad when episode 11 beats episode 13

 

[captcalhoun]

I'm often amazed at how I seem to be the only person who liked the finale of "Last of the Time Lords." Takes all sorts!

i thought it was okay aside from the Jesus-Tinkerbell-Doctor.

Voyage was worse.

 

[davejames]

I'm often amazed at how I seem to be the only person who liked the finale of "Last of the Time Lords." Takes all sorts!

i thought it was okay aside from the Jesus-Tinkerbell-Doctor.

Voyage was worse.

Agreed. I'll take the crazy and over-the-top LOTL over the dull and generic Voyage any day.

 

[Jax]

I'm often amazed at how I seem to be the only person who liked the finale of "Last of the Time Lords." Takes all sorts!

i thought it was okay aside from the Jesus-Tinkerbell-Doctor.

Voyage was worse.

I like all the RTD endings for what they are really fun action packed blowouts but I also like the moffat more low key affair for a finale its a nice change of pace. I dislike things from the RTD ones such as...

The whole Doctor being turned into a 2ft creature in a cage and floating at the end, RTD should of kept him as an old man and when he got those temp powers just do the same minus floating. The 4th season finale could of done without the Tardis flying Earth and a bit more complicated plot than push this button to win the day but I so like all 4 season enders and the first two are pretty bulletproof IMO.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I just watched it again, liked it a lot more even this time.

just ooone more tiny nitpick:

At the absolute end, when the Doctor, Amy and Rory run away from the wedding into a new adventure and when the TARDIS zooms off into the time vortex they really should have put a "Just Married" banner on the TARDIS during the end credits.
Missed opportunity really.

 

[davejames]

The whole Doctor being turned into a 2ft creature in a cage and floating at the end, RTD should of kept him as an old man and when he got those temp powers just do the same minus floating. The 4th season finale could of done without the Tardis flying Earth and a bit more complicated plot than push this button to win the day but I so like all 4 season enders and the first two are pretty bulletproof IMO.

I admit in retrospect those things DO seem awfully ridiculous (especially in contrast to the low-key Classic Series)... but for some reason at the time they didn't really bother me.

I guess RTD just did a really good job conditioning me to accept that kind of thing as "normal". lol

 

[Starkers]

The whole Doctor being turned into a 2ft creature in a cage and floating at the end, RTD should of kept him as an old man and when he got those temp powers just do the same minus floating. The 4th season finale could of done without the Tardis flying Earth and a bit more complicated plot than push this button to win the day but I so like all 4 season enders and the first two are pretty bulletproof IMO.

I admit in retrospect those things DO seem awfully ridiculous (especially in contrast to the low-key Classic Series)... but for some reason at the time they didn't really bother me.

I guess RTD just did a really good job conditioning me to accept that kind of thing as "normal". lol

Which is kinda worrying, and I think he conditioned a lot of us as to what was normal. Note, not right or wrong, just the accepted way of things.

People keep mentioning that something is missing from Moffat's Who, and frankly I know what they mean. Something isn't there anymore, and it was something nice and fun and good, but having said that I couldn't put my finger on what it was.

Similarly I know that what we have lost pales into comparison with what we have gained. Seriously I watched a series finale without getting angry or pissed off once (aside from a pernickerty "how did society evolve pretty much the same without stars? I mean that must have set exploration back 200 years at least?") I mean there were things that annoyed me slightly, but nothing, and I mean nothing to compare to how I felt when Rose became God, the Doctor used a giant vacuum cleaner to suck up the Daleks and Cybermen, the Doctor became Dobby then became Jesus, or Davros and 45 billion Daleks were defeated by some knob twiddling (ooh er missus!)

Having said that, after a second watch I'm still not sure about The Big Bang. I love the second half, and frankly Smith's little speech to sleeping Ameila almost beats out John smith's tearful resignation at the end of Family of blood. But the first half does seem a tad too convoluted and contrived. It'll probably grow on me with time. It is very good, but probably not the best of the series (which for me is a toss up between the 11th hour, the first part of the angels and Vincent)

God damn though Smith is fucking awesome every single second, from wearing a Fez to being the huge hero, to the lost little boy to the ultimate wedding guest. Seriously if this guy gets any more comfortable in the role he has to go down as the best Doctor ever.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

^It didn't by the way, check out the museums pieces in confidential...

 

[Winterwind]

I was one of the ones, when Smith was initially cast, to think "Too young. Can't do the job" and he's now become one of my favourite Doctors. My top three is now too crowded and someone has to slip to fourth.

And River Song just gets better for me. I mentioned it earlier and I'll mention it again. This woman can make a Dalek beg for mercy! Series 6 and who she really is can't come soon enough for me.

You've raised some good points there Starkers, contrasting RTD's finales to the one Moffat just gave us. And another good point about the lack of stars and how society evolved. There are far too many unanswered questions that we really can't go into though. The Tardis became our sun? For 4.5 billion years? Same life sustaining properties? Best we leave that one alone.

 

[Starkers]

^It didn't by the way, check out the museums pieces in confidential...

Hmm, haven't watched Confidential yet. I'm glad they address the issue, but as I've said before, we shouldn't have to rely on Confidential for things in an episode to make sense.

It's not something I'm hugely bothered about, and frankly no alternaitve history is ever remotely convincing anyway, I just found it a bit jarring.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

^It didn't by the way, check out the museums pieces in confidential...

Hmm, haven't watched Confidential yet. I'm glad they address the issue, but as I've said before, we shouldn't have to rely on Confidential for things in an episode to make sense.

It's not something I'm hugely bothered about, and frankly no alternaitve history is ever remotely convincing anyway, I just found it a bit jarring.

Well there's stuff like "Penguins of the Nile" and "Pharohs of the Himalayas" in the museum.

 

[davejames]

Similarly I know that what we have lost pales into comparison with what we have gained. Seriously I watched a series finale without getting angry or pissed off once (aside from a pernickerty "how did society evolve pretty much the same without stars? I mean that must have set exploration back 200 years at least?") I mean there were things that annoyed me slightly, but nothing, and I mean nothing to compare to how I felt when Rose became God, the Doctor used a giant vacuum cleaner to suck up the Daleks and Cybermen, the Doctor became Dobby then became Jesus, or Davros and 45 billion Daleks were defeated by some knob twiddling (ooh er missus!)

To be honest, most of the stuff in the Big Bang feels just as ridiculous to me, on the surface of it (rebooting the entire universe from a few particles that drifted into the Pandorica?? Amy "remembering" the Doctor back into existence??).

I think the difference is just that Moffat grounded it in enough rich character drama that the end result didn't feel like just a big, colorful cartoon. And somehow the fairy tale nature of the series made if seem a little more acceptable too.

 

[Photoman15]

The Tardis became our sun? For 4.5 billion years? Same life sustaining properties? Best we leave that one alone.

What makes you believe that the Tardis/sun sustained life for 4.5 billion years? The "current" universe may not have been that old since it was collapsing. The "eye of the storm" was 6/2010. The further back in time (or forward in time) has already been erased and it's now collapsing on the eye. (think TNGs' "Remember Me" and "All Good Things", it seems to be a combination of the two).

 

[Winterwind]

The Tardis became our sun? For 4.5 billion years? Same life sustaining properties? Best we leave that one alone.

What makes you believe that the Tardis/sun sustained life for 4.5 billion years? The "current" universe may not have been that old since it was collapsing. The "eye of the storm" was 6/2010. The further back in time (or forward in time) has already been erased and it's now collapsing on the eye. (think TNGs' "Remember Me" and "All Good Things", it seems to be a combination of the two).

Nothing makes me believe that at all.

I was simply following up on Starkers' comment about the evolution of a society with no stars and commenting on unanswered questions that are best left unasked/unanswered in science fanatsy.

 

[DAK]

Interesting that River obviously remembered him too, but that wasn't enough to bring him back for some reason. And she has many more memories of him than Amy does.

Well, we don't know how much River remembered. Her journal was blank, after all. She might've just had a weird feeling to give this strange blue book to the girl getting married on a certain day.

I was thinking about River and her diary and how her past is the Doctor's future. That must be so weird; the further into her future she goes, the less the Doctor remembers of their past relationship (whatever kind it was). She could never have a "remember when..." conversation with him. And the further the Doctor gets into his future timeline, it will be the same for him.

I just remembered something I was wondering; how did River's vortex manipulator end up sitting next to the Pandorica? Was that ever addressed, or should I just assume there was a deleted scene (or, perhaps, one was eaten by a crack) and that's just one of those things left behind that don't make sense.

I had asked that question too. I thought she was still wearing it when she went into the TARDIS, but it was just a watch on her wrist. She must have left it behind for some reason, maybe at his request?

Lets all get back to the real issue. How hot is Amy in that wedding dress? Yowza!!!

VERY!

I am slightly worried that Moffat is reading my mind though...Scottish long legged red head in short skirts and boots...well except when she's dressed as a police woman, or a bride!

Seriously if she shows up dressed as a secretary come Christmas...well it'll be a very good christmas for starters

Hey, Moff read my mind too, and then some! Shirtless Doctor! Wearing nothing but a towel! Which he then drops!!!

God damn though Smith is fucking awesome every single second, from wearing a Fez to being the huge hero, to the lost little boy to the ultimate wedding guest. Seriously if this guy gets any more comfortable in the role he has to go down as the best Doctor ever.

He's already there for me. Never would have thought so when I saw those first interviews with him, but wow, he's a damn fine actor. By the time he's 30 he'll be able to demand whatever role and salary he wants.

And River Song just gets better for me. I mentioned it earlier and I'll mention it again. This woman can make a Dalek beg for mercy! Series 6 and who she really is can't come soon enough for me.

I want to be just like River Song when I grow up.

Hmm, haven't watched Confidential yet. I'm glad they address the issue, but as I've said before, we shouldn't have to rely on Confidential for things in an episode to make sense.

It's worth it to watch Matt Smith with that fez. He was like a little kid at Christmas.