3D - Gamechanger or Gimmick?

[dragunzng]

Does anyone actually see the industry really getting behind this in a big way? As in across the board, like with HD and MMO?

Sony says they'll be making a big push in 2010, and it makes sense considering they're going to start selling TV's this year.

However, I can't see it making much of an impact in 2010, it'll be a while before penetration gets high enough that developers start fully integrating 3D into their design philosophy, but I expect we'll see more and more games at least offer support.

 

[Jim Steele]

With gaming, nobody seems to realise/care that doing stuff in 3D = massive performance hit. Really don't think this console gen is ready.

 

[Yoda]

Damn, a lot of unwarranted hatred for 720p in this thread

 

[bullethead]

With gaming, nobody seems to realise/care that doing stuff in 3D = massive performance hit. Really don't think this console gen is ready.

Well, some guys created an algorithm that should get games to near movie quality visuals, so it's possible that performance won't be too drastically affected in future games, but until then pure 3D games aren't a good idea.

 

[Jim Steele]

^

It's also possible that we'll be doing realtime raytracing on console hardware by 2012, but I wouldn't hold my breath

 

[dragunzng]

With gaming, nobody seems to realise/care that doing stuff in 3D = massive performance hit. Really don't think this console gen is ready.

I think you're over-estimating the performance cost, Wipeout HD, one of the most gorgeous games this generation runs in full 1080p with 3D, consider that it wasn't even initially programmed with 3D in mind. The same goes for GT5 and SuperStardust HD.

If games as good looking as GT5 and Wipeout can run in 3D with flawless framerates at 1080p, then I don't see why other developers can't follow suit.

EDIT: And I think you'll also be surprised that the next round of consoles might be capable of real time raytracing, I believe Carmack recently stated he wouldn't be surprised to see that happen.

 

[Jim Steele]

I think you're over-estimating the performance cost, Wipeout HD, one of the most gorgeous games this generation runs in full 1080p with 3D, consider that it wasn't even initially programmed with 3D in mind. The same goes for GT5 and SuperStardust HD.

Which makes me think the 3D effect must be being applied after the 2D image is rendered, similar to the way they pull off quasi-depth of field in games nowadays. If they were doing it properly, as in rendering two distinct images per frame, there has to be a performance hit - HAS to be. You can't just start rendering in 3D without some kind of compromise.

That's my understanding, anyway. I'm happy to be corrected if wrong but surely you see my logic. Also, if they're doing it as a filter after the fact - that's just shit and pointless and would only go to strengthen my point that current consoles aren't ready to do 3D.

If games as good looking as GT5 and Wipeout can run in 3D with flawless framerates at 1080p-

That's just it. There's gotta be a payoff, somewhere along the chain. You can't just flick a switch and get 3D.

And I think you'll also be surprised that the next round of consoles might be capable of real time raytracing, I believe Carmack recently stated he wouldn't be surprised to see that happen.

The next round of consoles probably aren't going to be here by 2012


EDIT: Asked a few games industry types on Twitter about this, was pretty intrigued as to how it would be possible to do 3D without effectively doubling the framerate (and clock cycle cost...) turns out I was completely barking up the wrong tree.

So, as is my current understanding - while you do need "breathing room in your engine", rendering the same frame twice from different angles is nowhere near as taxing as rendering two distinct frames. A lot of the hard work, physics/geometry/lighting and so on is already done.

I find that pretty fascinating, but I'm still rather dubious about Sony's claim that every game on the system can be told to render in 3D with little more than a firmware update. :S

tl;dr I was wrong, dragunzng. I WAS WROOOOONG

 

[dragunzng]

Jim Steele, I don't think Sony's claim is that every game on the system will render in 3D after the firmware update, as far as I know it will only enable the capability for games to take advantage of HDMI spec 1.4 (which includes provisions for Full 3D, as opposed to the half rendered/low res frame buffers that Avatar - The videogame rendered at).

As far as I know 3D will be on a case by case basis and entirely up to the developer to code for.

As you stated, there is an overhead, but like your friends pointed out, the same frame will be rendered twice but from a slightly different angle.

Have a look at this Eurogamer article which you might find helpful. Housemarque, the developers behind Super Stardust HD talk about how they're making the game 3D, it will in fact take a resolution hit, from 1080p to 720p, but the game will essentially render each frame twice (120fps) and from two slightly different angles to create the stereoscopic effect.

Eurogamer also point out that so far Sony's only demoed games that run at 1080p anyway, like Gran Turismo 5 and Wipeout HD, which means the 3D versions will likely run in 720p.

Of course there are rumors that Killzone 3 will also run in 3D, and since the original Killzone ran at 30fps in 720p, you have to imagine that there's a true belief that they'll be able to get a game that looks that good to render the same frame twice.

Lastly, I have no idea why I assumed you mentioned the next round of consoles in your original post, my bad. I sure hope we don't get a new round of consoles till 2013, but I sort of doubt that will be the case.

 

[D Man]

Pointless gimmick.

Tell that to the wildly successful Virtual Boy.