Well someone is grumpy this morning
2011 MLB Season Discussion
- Thread starter tomalak301
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Congrats to Mo Rivera for the 600th save. 
Even though saves are an ultimately overvalued statistic (considering that Rivera has been lucky enough to be on a team which wins more than it loses, generating more save opportunities for him -- sort of like crediting a player for his RBI while playing on a high run-scoring team), he's still been one of the best late-inning pitchers in history. Good for him.
That argument doesn't really hold water. For example, he did it with less opportunities than Hoffman.
Plus, the Yankees blow out more teams than most, further reducing saves chances.
That's silly...of course teams that score lots of runs are going to have a lot of RBIs! So does that mean the 1927 yanks were no big deal! Winning is part of the game, its one of many variables that goes into statistics and vice versa, and I don't see why it's any less of a feat because he plays on a good team..
Congrats to the Cardinals *and* the Marlins for their wins. (I would much rather have the Cards be the NL wildcard than the Braves...)
The Yankees winning more games than most gives him MORE chances, not less. Blowouts really aren't the important stat, if I had to guess. I'd put money down that they win more games by 3 or fewer runs than they blow out.
Doesn't matter if the Blue Jays win by 1 run every time they win if they don't win very often...
Missed the point, but whatever
You can't simply say the Yankees win alot and dismiss his accomplishment as if it's nothing. You need to look at the opportunities. You say the Yankees win alot. Well, how many of those wins ended in a save situation? How do the Yankees compare to other teams in save opportunities? The fact that Hoffman got 677 opportunities (Rivera had 674) for the Padres of all teams REALLY makes me doubt that playing for the Yankees have given Mariano such a massive advantage in this category. But putting that aside, I guess we should now say Verlander is over rated cause he plays in the cupcake AL Central or perhaps say that Linceculm really isn't all that since he missed the Juiced Batter era.
Hata's gonna hate
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I don't think anyone here is dismissing Rivera's accomplishments or trying to diminish them in any way. But you gotta admit, the Yankees' winning record *is* a factor, in a way. Not the ultimate, because a pitcher of Mo's abilities is going to make records and set standards. But team records are relevant, if only a bit.
No, I would say the Yankees winning record (the Padres were 500 or less for a solid chunk of Hoffman's career http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/teams/_/team/sd ) isn't much of a factor.
I would say his personal longevity is a MUCH bigger contributor. Not many closers have lasted as long as either Rivera or Hoffman.
I don't think saves are quite as overinflated in importance as RBIs are, statistically, but ultimately saves are more of a scorekeeping thing than a true indication of a pitcher's ability, I think. Not to say that 602 saves isn't impressive, but I'd argue that his more unheralded stats like his career WHIP of 0.998 stands out more.
Saves are like wins. They don't measure a pitcher in a vacuum based on his own talent, but they're essentially the win/loss record of a closer.
I hope the Yankees get swept by whoever they play.
^ Do you believe Chipper when he blames the stadium for the fact that he lost that ball in the lights?
I think the Phillies have lost four straight and clinch the best record in the National League. Probably would be nice if they win a game, though.
I'm just hoping the Twins win a few more games and avoid having a 100 loss season. Never thought that would be something the Twins would have to worry about.
I'm by no means a Dodgers fan, and I really am pulling for Ian Kennedy, but let's be serious, is Clayton Kershaw NOT a certifiable lock for the NL Cy Young award? If I am not mistaken, he's currently the Triple Crown leader in stats, tied only with Kennedy for wins (Kennedy DOES have one fewer loss, though. Neener neener LOL).
I am sure that we don't even need to debate the AL Cy Young. If it isn't Verlander, than the award needs to just go away.
I am sure that we don't even need to debate the AL Cy Young. If it isn't Verlander, than the award needs to just go away.
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