2011-12 pilot buzz thread

[wamdue]

Fox isnt going to need alot of new shows, its renewed most of its scheulde already, the only shows I dont know is, Lie to Me, Human Target, Traffic Lights, Kitchen Knightmars & Chicago Code. I am assuimg the saturday night line up of Cops & Amercias Most Wanted will be renewed, whilst X-Factor (& results show) & Terra Nova are all ready for launch next fall.

CBS will probaly be in a similar postition.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

The ONLY chance SFF has on network is if they don't expect 7 million people to watch. If they aimed at 3 million then it just MIGHT stay on the air longer.

SFF shows can draw a lot more than 3 million viewers - and sometimes more than 7 million viewers - on broadcast television with the right time slot, premise and cast. The problem with broadcast programming is that when they've stepped outside of their staple genres in recent years they've either gone for shows that are too esoteric and complicated in their premises or for shows with premises that are too fuzzy and indistinct.

What I'd like to see the networks do is make shows in a variety of genres - SFF and non-SFF - outside of their usual cop/lawyer/doctor shows, putting a premium on shows that are very bold and straightfoward in their premise and genre.

 

[Jax]

^^ Kitchen Nightmares will be picked up and then that really just leaves what 2nd sitcom FOX wants either a new one or it can bring back Breaking In. Most of FOX's new shows next season will be for spring because the lack of space though I hope they make Hells Kitchen a summer only show and uses the fall pre Fringe slot for scripted drama.

This is what I have as my personal lineup...

Bones - The Finder (Bones Spinoff)

Glee - House (final season)

The X Factor (90 mins) - Raising Hope with Breaking In or Pilot pickup when X Factor drops to 60 mins

The X Factor Result Show - Terra Nova

Hell's Kitchen/Pilot Pickup - Fringe

Repeat/The OT - Repeat/The OT - The Simpsons - Bob's Burgers - Family Guy - The Cleveland Show

American Dad, Kitchen Nightmares plus pilot pickups held back for Midseason.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think the lesson of Lost is - get viewers hooked by casting the show well, and focus on not letting the writing get in the way of the actors. Lost's writing was both pro and con. It was fascinating and inventive but convoluted and hard to follow. The success was due to the actors and probably also the location, and that the writing wasn't an absolute detriment to the show.

The failed sf/f shows I can think of a) don't have compelling enough actors (or good actors cast badly) and/or b) have bad/stale writing that overwhelms whatever charm the actors bring to the show.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I think the lesson of Lost is - get viewers hooked by casting the show well, and focus on not letting the writing get in the way of the actors. Lost's writing was both pro and con. It was fascinating and inventive but convoluted and hard to follow. The success was due to the actors and probably also the location.

Casting is a huge part of a show's success, but Lost also had the advantage of a clear core premise. A show can get complex in its plot as long as there's a clear core premise for the audience to hold on to. The flashback structure of Lost was also a genius move because it injected a lot of variety into the proceedings - in setting and character development - and thereby took the pressure off the immediate plot and prevented tedium setting in. If The River is picked up it's going to need some kind of narrative trick up its sleeve to stretch its premise to one that can support an ongoing series rather than one better suited to a limited series or movie. The same goes for REM/Awake.

 

[bigdaddy]

Fox isnt going to need alot of new shows, its renewed most of its scheulde already, the only shows I dont know is, Lie to Me, Human Target, Traffic Lights, Kitchen Knightmars & Chicago Code. I am assuimg the saturday night line up of Cops & Amercias Most Wanted will be renewed, whilst X-Factor (& results show) & Terra Nova are all ready for launch next fall.

CBS will probaly be in a similar postition.

Terra Nova is no where near ready for a fall launch, they still aren't finished with the pilot never mind the other 11-12 episodes they need to make. My guess is it will be pushed back to a midseason show.

This is what I have as my personal lineup...

Bones - The Finder (Bones Spinoff)

Fox wasn't happy with Finder / Locator it seems and are leaning towards having it fill in for Bones (And maybe still called Bones) for several episodes when Bones is missing from the show.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/05/bon...in-fox-schedule-during-emily-deschanel-leave/

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think the lesson of Lost is - get viewers hooked by casting the show well, and focus on not letting the writing get in the way of the actors. Lost's writing was both pro and con. It was fascinating and inventive but convoluted and hard to follow. The success was due to the actors and probably also the location.

Casting is a huge part of a show's success, but Lost also had the advantage of a clear core premise. A show can get complex in its plot as long as there's a clear core premise for the audience to hold on to. The flashback structure of Lost was also a genius move because it injected a lot of variety into the proceedings - in setting and character development - and thereby took the pressure off the immediate plot and prevented tedium setting in.

I actually found the flashbacks tedious and a waste of time. The premise wasn't clear - they changed it as they went (get off the island, get back to the island) and it's still not entirely clear what the true premise was, overall (the island needed to find a successor to Jacob?). The threat to the characters' survival was clear, but FlashForward also had a clear threat - a looming deadline - and that didn't help it survive.

 

[Jax]

I guess set up the characters more and then air a 13 episode midseason show could work, will be interesting to see.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I actually found the flashbacks tedious and a waste of time.

Well, you're never going to please everyone, but I think you're in the minority on that.

The premise wasn't clear - they changed it as they went (get off the island, get back to the island) and it's still not entirely clear what the true premise was, overall (the island needed to find a successor to Jacob?). The threat to the characters' survival was clear, but FlashForward also had a clear threat - a looming deadline - and that didn't help it survive.

The answer to the nature of the island isn't part of the core premise. The core premise was simple: A group of castaways are marooned on an island where strange things happen and they try to find out what's going on and how to escape. A lot of plot complexity was woven into the show, but that core premise served to anchor things for most of the show's run. By the time they switched things up they had a loyal audience hooked to the show.

I haven't watched FlashForward yet, so I can't speak to it. But a clear premise isn't the only element needed to boost a show's chances of success. It's one of the elements.

You need:

- A clear core premise.
- Charismatic actors cast in roles that they're well-suited to play.
- A premise and format that's suited to an ongoing series.
- A writing staff able to mine the premise and cast of characters well enough to give the series enough narrative drive to keep an audience entertained.

Even if you get all of those elements right you might still not have a success since you could be crushed by too much competition in a particular time slot or for whatever mercurial reason you might not hit the zeitgeist at the right time, but if you get those elements right you'll at least improve your chances of success, and if you fail on any one of those elements your chances of success will be curtailed.

 

[startrekwatcher]

If sff shows want to run for several seasons they definitely need to avoid creating a premise that is limited otherwise they'll have to do what LOST did and drag things out with a lot of stalling which was what made LOST S2 and the early part of S3 so tedious and frustrating.

Personally I'm pretty much over those kind of shows. I'd much rather have a show go back to the template primetime dramas adopted and worked well for them for decades--season long arcs and move on to a new season arc rather than having an overarching series spanning arc. YOu have your new storylines for the year and new guest stars then wrap it up and answer everything raised all season come season finale--Xindi arc or S1 of Heroes did this well.

For me the problems I had with a lot of the recent sff shows--

V--poor characters, poor actors, weak storylines, lack of narrative urgency, recycled stuff like a Queen, alien enamored with the idea of emotion, tired terrorism allegories.

Flash Forward--dull characters, masquerading as an ongoing arc while a lot of episodes had essentially standalone stories that could have been on any cop show.

Caprica--too slow, ponderous, characters weren't that interesting, aimless storytelling, a bit too pretentious

The Event-dull characters and the fact the writers turned it into essentially a stale action political thriller.

Heroes--boring characters, too fast paced, didn't develop its storylines just jumped manically from one to the next not adding up to much.

LOST had too many characters and a lot of times they were nothing more than plot devices. LOST was good at introducing a bunch of intriguing ideas but a lot of times that was all they did--like S3 and 4 of Heroes they just dropped them. The show was way too fast paced-you couldn't enjoy what you were watching because they threw way too much at you and I also hated the way they crammed so much into an episode that the scenes became truncated and a lot of stuff I would have liked dramatized or addressed onscreen what left up to the audience to fill in and acknowledge. LOST--and its brethren--also tried too hard to confuse the audience and it led to writers too concerned with keeping their cards close to the vest, manuevering and gimmicks.

Now sometimes an interesting plot-driven series can work if the characters don't.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

The Truest Word Ever Spoken blog has a rundown of the buzz as they see it, placing pilots into "sure thing", "hot", "a shot" and "not" categories:

NBC

SURE THING
Dramas: Smash

HOT
Dramas: Prime Suspect, Playboy, REM (also called Awake), Wonder Woman
Comedies: Are You There, Vodka?, Alpha Mom (title not set), Whitney (title not set)

A SHOT
Dramas: Special Investigations LA (also called Metro), Help Wanted (title not set), Reconstruction, Grimm, A Mann's World
Comedies: Bent, Family Practice (title not set)

NOT
Dramas: 17th Precinct
Comedies: Lovelives, Free Agents, Brave New World, My Life as an Experiment

There isn't much being said at all about the comedies I Hate That I Love You and Best Friends Forever.

Fox

SURE THING
DRAMAS: Terra Nova
REALITY: The X Factor
COMEDIES: Family Album, The New Girl!

HOT
DRAMAS: Weekends at Bellevue, Touch, Exit Strategy
COMEDIES: I Hate My Teenage Daughter

A SHOT
DRAMAS: The Finder, Alcatraz, Locke & Key
COMEDIES:

NOT
DRAMAS:
COMEDIES: The Council of Dads, Tagged, Outnumbered

There isn't much being said at all about the comedies Little in Common and Iceland.

ABC

SURE THING
DRAMAS: Charlie's Angels, Good Christian Bitches
COMEDIES: Untitled Tim Allen Project, Don't Trust the Bitch in Apt. 23

HOT
DRAMAS: Identity, Poe, The River
COMEDIES: Smothered, Suburgatory

A SHOT
DRAMAS: Pan Am, Grace, Hallelujah, Georgetown, Revenge, Once Upon a Time, Damage Control (also called Scandal)
COMEDIES: Man Up, Bad Mom, Work It

NOT
DRAMAS: Partners
COMEDIES: Other People's Kids, Lost and Found, My Freaking Family

CBS

SURE THING
DRAMAS: Rookies
COMEDIES:

HOT
DRAMAS: Untitled Susannah Grant Project, Person of Interest, Hail Mary
COMEDIES: How to Be a Gentelman, Two Broke Girls

A SHOT
DRAMAS: Ringer, The Rememberer (title not set)
COMEDIES: The Assistants, Untitled Peter Knight Project, Untitled Rob Schneider Project

NOT
DRAMAS: The Doctor
COMEDIES: Home Game, Vince Uncensored
There isn't much being said at all about the comedy Untitled Filgos Project.

The CW

SURE THING The Secret Circle, Hart of Dixie

HOT

A SHOT Heavenly, The Awakening

NOT Cooper and Stone, Danni Lowinski

 

[wamdue]

Terra Nova is no where near ready for a fall launch, they still aren't finished with the pilot never mind the other 11-12 episodes they need to make. My guess is it will be pushed back to a midseason show.

ok, I hadnt realised that.

gees that show is a long time coming, ok I know there is a good reason for that, but im already thinking its going to be semi season, rather than a full one each year.

Keeping The Finder alive seems like a good move, even if it could get a full series, there isnt room, might be best to let it grow a bit next season, and then give it a full season next year.

Do they really need two Gordon Ramsay cooking shows?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The answer to the nature of the island isn't part of the core premise.

It wasn't? I thought that was the whole point of the show! And as it turned out, it really was the whole point of the show - the island needs a new Jacob and all the hooplah for six years was just to accomplish that. (And when viewers realized that, a lot of them threw a fit, because whatever the premise was, they didn't want it to be that.)

The core premise was simple: A group of castaways are marooned on an island where strange things happen and they try to find out what's going on and how to escape.

That's more the jeopardy the characters are in, the immediate dramatic conflict. (And getting off the island ceased to be part of the conflict halfway through the series, when characters did get off the island and realized that wasn't the point after all.) But if a conflict like that will keep people watching, why did they tune out of Flash Forward, where there was a ticking-clock dramatic conflict?

I think Lost's premise was: ?????. The point is that we didn't know the premise - the premise was for us to guess what the premise was. They got away with it because the central dramatic conflict was interesting enough (polar bears! invisible dinosaurs!) and the actors were engaging enough. The whole show was kind of a con game, and it's not easy to replicate successful con games.

I think the formula boils down to:

1. Charismatic actors cast in roles that they're well-suited to play.

2. Writers who have the sense to throw a continual avalanche of distractions at us, so we don't have time to realize that they don't really know where they're going, or we're too entertained to care.

3. A premise and format that's suited to an ongoing series.

#1 and #3 seem to be where a lot of shows falter. With the exception of Robert Knepper, Reconstruction might not have #1 in place (and #3 is questionable). REM/Awake, Touch, and possibly Alcatraz might not qualify for #3. Grimm and Locke & Key seem like the ones that fit the formula best and have the best hope of surviving after the pilot.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

First pickup: The New Girl, FOX.

Not a pilot, but interesting: Falling Skies renewed for S2 sight unseen.

 

[bigdaddy]

And the Bones spinoff (lame name) and The Rock have been picked up.

 

[Witterquick]

First pickup: The New Girl, FOX.

Not a pilot, but interesting: Falling Skies renewed for S2 sight unseen.

There was an update in your first link after you posted. Alcatrez was picked up. Yes!

 

[startrekwatcher]

Alcatraz sounds interesting--hopefully it won't turn into the mess that almost 99% of these recent mystery series have ended up becoming.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

First pickup: The New Girl, FOX.

Not a pilot, but interesting: Falling Skies renewed for S2 sight unseen.

There was an update in your first link after you posted. Alcatrez was picked up. Yes!

Wow, cool! I am very curious about that one. I guess it means that Locke & Key is out then, but at least one of the two made it!

I wonder if they'll shoot it in San Francisco. Probably not, even though there's no city that can stand in for SF.

FOX cancels Breaking In and Human Target. I wonder if that's why they had room for Alcatraz? Or maybe it's because supposedly hot Weekends at Bellevue is dead? (So much for the buzz. )

No great loss for Breaking In - great cast, very iffy writing.

 

[bigdaddy]

Terra Nova is no where near ready for a fall launch, they still aren't finished with the pilot never mind the other 11-12 episodes they need to make. My guess is it will be pushed back to a midseason show.

ok, I hadnt realised that.

gees that show is a long time coming, ok I know there is a good reason for that, but im already thinking its going to be semi season, rather than a full one each year.

Keeping The Finder alive seems like a good move, even if it could get a full series, there isnt room, might be best to let it grow a bit next season, and then give it a full season next year.

Do they really need two Gordon Ramsay cooking shows?

It's took them 18+ months to make half a pilot episode. There is no way the show will even make 20-24 episodes a year. I still believe the whole thing will fall apart and we will get some TV movie version of it on Friday night in July 2019.

And Finder (Should be called "The Locator") is picked up and I doubt will live long. Maybe 13 episodes, 6 before Bones in September and October and 7 during a winter Bones break.

Gordon Ramsay has two shows, but they are never on the air at the same time. I think Hell's Kitchen will be a summer show and Hell's Kitchen is only 13 episodes a season.

 

[Starbreaker]

Alcatraz was shot on location.