2001: A Space Odyssey

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Sentience, Jul 7, 2021.

  1. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I thought about following that line of thought in my post, but it all boils down to the fact that, eventually, the Monoliths were going to have to be made public, but we know nothing about when or how that was planned to be done, or why they were waiting as long as they did.

    If I was going to speculate, I'd say the idea was to maintain the fiction that Discovery was just on the same planned mission from before the Monolith was discovered until it reached Jupiter. The mission specialists would be woken up, and would investigate whatever it was the Tycho Monolith was talking to, and would report back (probably on a scramble), and then the U.S. Government would figure out how to sell whatever they found to the public once they had some answers. That serves the dual purpose of keeping anyone else from trying to beat the Discovery to Jupiter (as happened in the novel of 2010, where the Chinese attempted to salvage Discovery before the joint U.S./Soviet mission could get there, without giving themselves away and causing the Leonov mission to also expedite its launch), and delaying disclosure until they discover if Jupiter has an alien city, or a doomsday machine, or whatever would cut back on panic and baseless speculation by the public before anyone got to Jupiter and learned what was there.
     
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  2. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I imagine that around the time the mission specialists were to be woken up, HAL would have played the recorded message from Dr. Floyd to Bowman and Poole, thus bringing them up to speed. The world found out about the Monolith's existence from Bowman's transmissions anyway. Either the mission planners didn't think through how Bowman and Poole were going to be briefed, or they didn't inform HAL on when there were to be briefed and he started to become more and more paranoid that they might find out about the top secret mission that he was not suppose to tell them about because they were getting close enough that they might actually see it if they looked at Jupiter with a telescope. His instructions were written wrong, as seen in 2010 when Dr. Chandra pulls HAL's orders, but did HAL have orders to tell the command team of Discovery about the Monolith?
     
  3. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The book pretty much states that; Discovery was already planned, and redirected to follow up the signal from the Lunar Monolith. The late change, and not telling many of the crew, was a factor in HAL's issues.
     
  4. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep. HAL is ordered to complete the mission, yet keep the crew in ignorance. The only way he can resolve that paradox is to assume the crew are a threat to the mission.
     
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  5. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When NASA restricted access to Apollo transmissions, journalists grumbled. So open access was probably the principle, meaning Bowman and Poole couldn't be censored.
     
  6. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Because at that time HAL's prediction hasn't been shown as inaccurate as yet. HAL knows that if the unit fails as predicted, the crew's faith in him will be restored. HAL isn't lying to Frank or Dave at that point - HAL believes its prediction of the Comm unit's impending failure is accurate.
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Really? I always thought that the AE-35 was never going to fail, and HAL made the whole thing up to justify disabling it and thus losing communication with Earth.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm.

    If HAL is wrong about the antenna and knows he's wrong about the antenna, it begs the admittedly nitpicky question of why he chose that point in time to act. Is it that he was holding onto the last shreds of his sanity until then, or that he felt his window of opportunity was closing?

    It seems to make more sense that HAL didn't know his prediction was wrong (either due to his programming being compromised or because he made a genuine mistake...maybe he's powered by Pentium?), and once he was faced with the inevitability of his mistake coming to light he either snapped at that point, or the already-unstable HAL just decided to escalate matters.
     
  9. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's explained in 2010 TYWMC. They had figured out (lip reading) he lied about the antenna and were going to disconnect some of his higher functions. He got paranoid and acted to preserve himself.
     
  10. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    The question is how much HAL's left hand knew what his right hand was doing. He seemed to be of two minds on the whole thing. There's the moment where he's talking to Dave, and is trying to hint to him there's something he needs to know about the mission that he shouldn't, but Dave shoots him down, assuming HAL is doing a psychological test to see if Dave is getting paranoid from the isolation. As soon as that happens, HAL reports the failure in the antenna, and his entire affect changes for the rest of the movie, becoming much colder and more mechanical. There could've been a subconscious element to him cutting the antenna, to the point where he wasn't fully aware of everything he was doing.
     
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  11. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Did Discovery 2 actually go to the Jovian system after the events of 2010? It seems like it would be the perfect time to send a new explorer mission on the wake of what happened to Jupiter that year.
     
  12. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    Is it paranoid if you catch people talking about lobotomizing you?
     
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  13. Skipper

    Skipper Commodore Commodore

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    Once a read a review how it is funny that a computer is the most emotional character in the movie. All the other ones are professional and little cold (as trained astronauts are supposed to be).

    Imagine the same scenes happening in a modern movie (the death of Poole and Hal locking out Bowman). The character's screams of desperation would likely destroy the theater's speakers. Followed by a satisfied "Oh yes, I want to hear it mother******er!" while he disables the higher functions of Hal.
     
  14. Foxhot

    Foxhot Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    With Jim Carrey as Bowman.
     
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  15. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My understanding is that the irony is intentional. I think Dullea and Lockwood comment on it on the commentary track for the film.
     
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  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's not funny at all. Stanley Kubrick actually intended it to be that way.

    We have no idea what ultimately happened to Discovery 2, although I assume that it was made redundant by the Leonov.
     
  17. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would imagine Earth would need some massive scientific research around the creation of Lucifer, and there seemed to be a bit more space traffic by 2061.
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    It's way too early in the morning for me. I read that as "massive scientific reach-around." :angel:
     
  19. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Until this moment, I'd never given a second's thought to the fate of the Discovery 2, though after the transformation of Jupiter the NCA would have a good reason to complete it. There's value in getting a vessel to the Lucifer system as soon as possible, though what they really need are craft capable of landing on the Galilean moons (excepting Europa), which the Disco 2 was not.
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the novelization, wasn't Discovery 2 intended to pick up the crew of Discovery 1 after the successful completion of the mission?

    Seems like that would have been a massive waste of resources. Why go to all the effort of building a second ship to rescue the crew of the first? Why not simply make Discovery 1 able to take the crew to Jupiter and back?

    I mean, if Discovery 2 could make the full round trip, then surely the first should also have been able to.