20 most Cringeworthy Scenes in the New Trek films???

[Franklin]

The studio's are churning out movies the same way the music industry is churning out pop songs. But I think the general audience will still dig it even when it's not good or creative as long as they use the formula. Sometimes I can shut my brain off and enjoy it as well.

Well, it's called pop culture. Gangster movies, westerns, pulp sci-fi, romantic comedies, buddy movies, escapism, low humor, it's always been a part of Hollywood. You see it in literature, too. You know, the complete works of Jacqueline Susann, the novels of Harold Robbins.

You pretty much have to shut off your brain to enjoy 90 percent of what Hollywood has put out since day one. I have to shut my brain off to enjoy "Casablanca". I mean, there are some great lines in there, and Bogie out-cools Sinatra, but when you really stop to study the plot and what's going on in the story (the letters of transit themselves are pure fiction, nothing like that existed in reality), the movie sucks.

TV is even worse, of course. I mean you have to check your brain at the door to accept most of the precepts of "Star Trek" and just enjoy the stories and characters. And that goes back to 1966, let's be honest. It's not highly intellectual stuff meant to be put into a time capsule representing the best of entertainment culture.

And even Mozart and The Beatles wanted to be popular enough to make money.

 

[Cyke101]

Not too many movies full of characters in their 50s and 60s would work with themes filled with teen angst, anyway. It was hardly the gateway movie to bring in new, younger fans. It was a sentimental swan song.

One thing I've noticed a lot of lately is a "kids react to ___". I saw one where kids react to Jaws, and another where they marvel at an Apple II. The idea behind this is to try to quantify the change in culture between then and now.

I just watched the episode where kids watched the 1987 Ninja Turtles cartoon. What a bunch of unappreciative little shits.

(I kid, I kid. I meant they were twerps.)

 

[YellowSubmarine]

OK, I just figured what's the biggest flaw in the new films - red matter is actually red. Not black, not invisible, not glowing blue, but red!

Really, what kind of deranged scientist would call a red substance red? If it is made of particles violating colour confinement carrying positive red charge, it can be red matter, but if it is simply red it will be called something more clever like tri-phase left-handed string-degenerate proto-quantum superplasma or, say, churp.

Worst of all, according to Sabrina Morris' character, red matter is creating new mass from nothing. This means that it cannot be red-charged either, it must be a Higgs boson soup split into choloate copoloms and cherry felatoms.

 

[BillJ]

OK, I just figured what's the biggest flaw in the new films - red matter is actually red. Not black, not invisible, not glowing blue, but red!

Really, what kind of deranged scientist would call a red substance red? If it is made of particles violating colour confinement carrying positive red charge, it can be red matter, but if it is simply red it will be called something more clever like tri-phase left-handed string-degenerate proto-quantum superplasma or, say, churp.

Worst of all, according to Sabrina Morris' character, red matter is creating new mass from nothing. This means that it cannot be red-charged either, it must be a Higgs boson soup split into choloate copoloms and cherry felatoms.

+1

 

[Captrek]

I always assumed the red goo was some kind of suspension rather than the exotic matter itself.

 

[austen_pierce]

As far as generalizations of kids today with zero attention spans and only attracted to things that move at a break-neck pace goes, that's patently wrong. For example, Harry Potter became famous first as books. Plenty of tweens and teens have taken the time to sit down and read them cover to cover. The same with Catching Fire, Divergent, and The Hunger Games, and The Fault in Our Stars. One particular genre may be dominate an age group in a certain time, but that's really no different than my parents growing up with swing, me growing up with rock n' roll, and my daughters growing up with whatever crap it is they're listening to.

This is more than just true, it's gospel. I'm proud of my boys even when I'm fussing at them to stop reading, turn off the light, and go to sleep. There's some great fiction out there. I've read some of it myself. It's deep, complex, and in many cases, darkly compelling. It is NOT action every second. The next Trek movie could take a cue from this, but I doubt that will happen.

For what it's worth, I've posted on here before that my then 14 year-old daughter loved STID. When we got the DVD-BluRay, she's probably watched it more times than I have. When I finally sat down to watch TWOK with her, it was I who walked away a little disappointed and disillusioned with TWOK compared to STID. Maybe my attention span is shrinking as I age. Maybe even though I saw TWOK in a theater at age 22, today it's me who sees the age showing through in the movie.

Yes, TWOK does show it's age. Note the cassette and 35mm film roll casings glued to the bridge walls (actually from TMP). I still LOVE the movie, but I can see where a younger viewer would furrow some eyebrows.

 

[Amaris]

20 most cringe inducing scenes in Star Trek Into Darkness:


#20...


I can't think of any. I accepted the movie as it was, an homage and re-imagined continuation of the original series, and I enjoyed it as such. To me, it's TOS, just updated with modern sensibilities that may have been lacking in the original series.

 

[Green Shirt]

The really bad thing about the internet is any dumbass in his bedroom can create a blog and call himself a columnist/journalist. The worst part is some of them actually make money at it.

That give me an idea. I need to set up a Paypal account so everybody can send me 2 cents every time I post here.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The thing about Kirk violating the Prime Directive at the start of the movie was that he was not only called out on it, he was severely reprimanded and demoted, too.

Yes, for the heinous of daring to save an entire planet.

Seriously Pike's whole "not playing god thing" is a bunch hypocritical bullshit.

the Prime Directive is all about deciding a planets destiny based on how advanced they are.

How is that not playing god?

In fact how is that not freaking evil?

And I'm supposed to think that its a good thing that Kirk is punished for basically not being a complete monster why exactly.

 

[martok2112]

If I may respectfully offer a notion:

I think it's sort of a notion that a planet must develop so far on its own, before a more advanced culture comes in to offer that planet aid.

In the case of the Nibiru, Pike refers to their culture as having barely gotten past inventing the wheel. And as the audience (and the crew) saw, they are a very primitive, spiritual, and perhaps even superstitious people.

The Vulcans largely ignored Earth until Zephram Cochrane was able to invent warp drive for it. And then, for those who take Enterprise as canon, the Vulcans still did not present everything on a silver platter.

Imagine what could happen if the Vulcans just gave all knowledge to Earth all at once. That would be a lot to process, for starters. And then, what about the various cultures of Earth that might still cling to older beliefs? How would such a radical change affect them, and their place in the larger world-view?

Now, imagine just waltzing in and saving a primitive, spiritual, superstitious people (Nibiru) from potential world ending disaster...and they become aware of it? Everything they've ever known or held to be true would seem like one great big lie to them...and then it could just spiral from there. It could potentially lead to a fate worse than if they'd been destroyed by the suoervolcano itself.

The Nibiru saw the Enterprise rise from their ocean, fly into the mouth of the still-firebeast, soothed its raging bellows, and then flew off into the great whereever. We saw that one among them was drawing a not too shabby image of their savior into the mother sand. The high priest dropped his holy scriptures as if it were nothing more than a dirty tabloid, and started bowing before it. Everything those people knew, up to that point, suddenly became a lie for them, it would seem...and they started bowing before a new tin god.

Then, on top of all that, what if the Federation comes back and tells these now confused souls that "there are no gods"? (actually, the Feds wouldn't as they respect the right.of spirituality among its citizens and protectorates)....but what if they did?

The Federation has come to the conclusion that species must learn some things on their own before the Feds come in to offer advanced guiadance to a larger world, lest that culture potentially destroy itself with trying to use knowledge beyond their understanding.

What Kirk did was morally praiseworthy, and right. Unfortunately, it was not right in the spirit and letter of the law.

Much the same as someone terminating a serial killer without the due process of law afforded to the serial killer that is supposed to be afforded to every criminal/suspect. It might be morally praiseworthy and right....and even get that person branded a hero in some circles....but unfortunately (oft, to our chagrin), it is still legally wrong.

At least, that's my view on the matter...and as always, it is simply my opinion.

 

[BillJ]

Now, imagine just waltzing in and saving a primitive, spiritual, superstitious people (Nibiru) from potential world ending disaster...and they become aware of it? Everything they've ever known or held to be true would seem like one great big lie to them...and then it could just spiral from there. It could potentially lead to a fate worse than if they'd been destroyed by the suoervolcano itself.

I just don't buy that saving a primitive people is going to lead them to a fate worse than death. That simply doesn't make any sense.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Now, imagine just waltzing in and saving a primitive, spiritual, superstitious people (Nibiru) from potential world ending disaster...and they become aware of it? Everything they've ever known or held to be true would seem like one great big lie to them...and then it could just spiral from there. It could potentially lead to a fate worse than if they'd been destroyed by the suoervolcano itself.

I just don't buy that saving a primitive people is going to lead them to a fate worse than death. That simply doesn't make any sense.

And the fact that that particular version of the Prime Directive was based on basically Nazis pseudoscience doesn't help either.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Now, imagine just waltzing in and saving a primitive, spiritual, superstitious people (Nibiru) from potential world ending disaster...and they become aware of it? Everything they've ever known or held to be true would seem like one great big lie to them...and then it could just spiral from there. It could potentially lead to a fate worse than if they'd been destroyed by the suoervolcano itself.

I just don't buy that saving a primitive people is going to lead them to a fate worse than death. That simply doesn't make any sense.

And the fact that that particular version of the Prime Directive was based on basically Nazis pseudoscience doesn't help either.

 

[martok2112]

Perhaps I used a bit of hyperbole there. I apologize.

What I meant was, now, all of their beliefs have been turned upside down by the appearance and actions of the great metal beast (the Enterprise). What if such a thing could lead to constant holy wars among the populace? I mean, a high priest threw away sacred scripture to start worshipping the Enterprise. The rest of his people as well. But, surely they are not the only clan of Nibiru on the planet. What if the other clans heard this high priest's new preachings, and took it for heresy or blasphemy? Would it be enough to launch these clans into holy wars? And for how long? Someone's deeply held beliefs got flip flopped in just a few short minutes...and wars could possibly start because of others who have not seen, and who refuse to believe. The wars start, and the primitive Nibiru live in constant fear, where before, they were probably living in what they thought was paradise. (Assuming that all the Nibiru clans lived in harmony. We have no way of knowing, of course. We only saw one sect.)

Also, war is a top accelerant for technology. As the Nibiru fight, they start developing better weapons. Faster, more efficient ways to kill.

Granted, we live in a constant state of war all the time....but for the most part, most of the more developed nations are generally secure. Such nations don't always live in a constant state of fear.

But the primitive Nibiru might.

I never said my ideas were flawless. I just offered up some ideas.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

^love your screenname

 

[BillJ]

What I meant was, now, all of their beliefs have been turned upside down by the appearance and actions of the great metal beast (the Enterprise). What if such a thing could lead to constant holy wars among the populace? I mean, a high priest threw away sacred scripture to start worshipping the Enterprise. The rest of his people as well. But, surely they are not the only clan of Nibiru on the planet. What if the other clans heard this high priest's new preachings, and took it for heresy or blasphemy? Would it be enough to launch these clans into holy wars? And for how long? Someone's deeply held beliefs got flip flopped in just a few short minutes...and wars could possibly start because of others who have not seen, and who refuse to believe. The wars start, and the primitive Nibiru live in constant fear, where before, they were probably living in what they thought was paradise. (Assuming that all the Nibiru clans lived in harmony. We have no way of knowing, of course. We only saw one sect.)

Also, war is a top accelerant for technology. As the Nibiru fight, they start developing better weapons. Faster, more efficient ways to kill.

Granted, we live in a constant state of war all the time....but for the most part, most of the more developed nations are generally secure. Such nations don't always live in a constant state of fear.

But the primitive Nibiru might.

This is like saying one should allow a toddler to be hit by a bus because their lives might be difficult down the road.

I'll err on the side of life.

 

[Franklin]

The only time the prime directive was specifically spelled out in TOS that I can remember is in "Bread and Circuses". It said:
-- No identification of self or mission.
-- No interference with the social development of the planet.
-- No references to space, other worlds, or more advanced civilizations.

Somewhere down the line, "social development of the planet" became "natural development of the planet." That's a big difference in wording. If Kirk had been able to save Nibiru without being seen, I'm not sure he would've violated the prime directive as it's said in B&C. As it was later worded in TNG, just his effort to save the planet, even if it went unnoticed, was a violation.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Yeah, and I find no interference with the social development of the world much easier to stomach than the later version. Leaving the civilization to discover the world on their own is one thing, leaving them completely unaided no matter what doesn't make sense to me.

Say, an asteroid heading their way does interfere with their ability to develop at all, so stopping it is fully within the spirit of the prime directive. And who's to say that the asteroid's trajectory wasn't altered by your warp drive? To paraphrase what has been said in Ent D's ready room, not interfering can also be an act of interfering. Your mere presence in the quadrant affects the destiny of everyone else there, as little as it might.

And a volcano erupting is also interfering with the development of the civilization, and how exactly do you know its eruption wasn't catalysed by an asteroid you sent there? Even if it wasn't, stopping the interference of other civilizations seems to be seen as OK, I don't see why you'd treat the natural elements differently. I wouldn't care if it was a volcano or I was being nuked by a group of rogue Klingons, I'd rather live.

I found TNG crew's insistence on letting civilizations die quite disturbing, in both Pen Pals and Homeward. Saving the people on Nibiru was the right thing to do, whatever your fancy 24th century prime directive says.

Even the organians saw it necessary to interfere with the fate of someone more primitive than they were, and they still seemed like a bunch of assholes.

 

[Franklin]

Yeah, and I find no interference with the social development of the world much easier to stomach than the later version. Leaving the civilization to discover the world on their own is one thing, leaving them completely unaided no matter what doesn't make sense to me.

Say, an asteroid heading their way does interfere with their ability to develop at all, so stopping it is fully within the spirit of the prime directive. And who's to say that the asteroid's trajectory wasn't altered by your warp drive? To paraphrase what has been said in Ent D's ready room, not interfering can also be an act of interfering. Your mere presence in the quadrant affects the destiny of everyone else there, as little as it might.

And a volcano erupting is also interfering with the development of the civilization, and how exactly do you know its eruption wasn't catalysed by an asteroid you sent there? Even if it wasn't, stopping the interference of other civilizations seems to be seen as OK, I don't see why you'd treat the natural elements differently. I wouldn't care if it was a volcano or I was being nuked by a group of rogue Klingons, I'd rather live.

I found TNG crew's insistence on letting civilizations die quite disturbing, in both Pen Pals and Homeward. Saving the people on Nibiru was the right thing to do, whatever your fancy 24th century prime directive says.

Even the organians saw it necessary to interfere with the fate of someone more primitive than they were, and they still seemed like a bunch of assholes.

Agreed 100 percent.

If they had come across Nibiru as a planet of 1970s Earth technology going through its own version of a Cold War that turned hot, and they watched them destroying their civilization in a nuclear war, interfering to stop that would be a violation of the prime directive in any form.

On the other hand, stopping a natural disaster that can be prevented without overt interference in the cultures on the planet is an act of humanitarianism. Part of the mission of Starfleet is to save lives, after all.

I wonder what TNG Prime Directive types would do if they were walking in the woods and came across a "primitive" baby bird that just fell from its nest. Would they return it to the nest, or would they walk on by and say they can't help it because it would interfere with the natural development of that species of bird?

 

[martok2112]

Well, like I said, just offering up an idea regarding possible follies of the ideals of the Prime Directive.

I loved STID, and that's all that need be said.

People wanna think I'm a dumbfuck for simply offering up one idea out of countless possible others (multiple possibilities being a tenet of science fiction), well, that's your hang up, not mine.

I don't claim for one minute that my ideas are great. .. but if folk can't even be arsed to consider all possibilities, I shall have to further reconsider my idea of what a sci-fi fan/lover is.

Thank you for your consideration, or lack thereof.