11:59

[2 of 10]

In other threads I have read the Voyager episode "11:59" has not been given the credit I think it deserves. I really liked the episode, No Borg, No Time Travel, No Dangerous Nebulas, No Weird Aliens, No EPS conduants exploding, No Seven and Doc story line, No Tom and B'Elanna.

Just a good episode that explored Janeways distant reletives. I thought that Kate did a great job in playing Shannon O'Donnel, in 1999/2000. Even the cars were so bad they totally fit the scenes. The plot was good, the concept was good, and the ending really got to me. A Voyager Family Portrate...Any Thoughts??

Resistance is Futile

 

[Anika Hanson]

I never got this episode. I would have preferred it if they had just given each main character 15 mins or so each to talk about one of their ancestors rather than just focusing on Janeways ancestor.

This was one of my least favourite episodes along with the Lyndsey Ballad one. But that's just me

 

[JNG]

I respect the goal of the episode, but I don't think it hit the mark.

 

[Rÿcher]

I hated this episode. One minute Janeway was proud of her ancestor but once she found out she supposedly didn't do what she set out to do, all of a sudden she wasn't so proud anymore and then turns out after some digging her ancestor did so something good after all which made things right after all?

 

[Akiraprise]

This is one of my least favorite episodes. Hard to say exactly why. The acting was good, but it just wasn't Voyager.

I need my splosions and Borg babys.

 

[Jeri]

I think it's memorable, precisely because it makes a good point: people tend to aggrandize their origins and ancestors, and it turns out most of them were just some mule driver on an expedition.

It's not deflating; in fact, it's comforting to know that some lowly conquistador mule driver can found a family. Take a look at the Janeway family photograph: full of happy people, who it turns out, had no other reason to exist than to care for each other -- and that's enough, plenty in fact. It's empowering, not depowering.

I always think of this as VOY's "Christmas episode," because of the snow, the plot and the focus on family. The plot is a classic holiday-story sort, with someone fighting the good fight and coming together in a warm, loving ending.

 

[exodus]

I think it's memorable, precisely because it makes a good point: people tend to aggrandize their origins and ancestors, and it turns out most of them were just some mule driver on an expedition.

It's not deflating; in fact, it's comforting to know that some lowly conquistador mule driver can found a family. Take a look at the Janeway family photograph: full of happy people, who it turns out, had no other reason to exist than to care for each other -- and that's enough, plenty in fact. It's empowering, not depowering.

I always think of this as VOY's "Christmas episode," because of the snow, the plot and the focus on family. The plot is a classic holiday-story sort, with someone fighting the good fight and coming together in a warm, loving ending.

Very well thought out & well said.

I agree with you & 2 of 10.

The purpose was to also show that dispite all those waiting in the Alpha Q. for them, the Voyager crew themselves had become a family which concludes with them having that photo of the crew at the end.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

this episode was sooo boring. Worse than the holodeck episodes, because usually there's something on the ship going on with those episodes. what irked me the most, though was:

http://www.cynicscorner.org/voy_5/voy_523.html

In another stunning case of retrocharacterization, we learn that Paris is an expert on all the Mars missions. And just in time, too; otherwise Janeway might never have learned the shocking truth about her ancestor. Come on: "Paris' ancestor must have known the Captain's ancestor!" -- they say everyone has a "small world" story to tell, but this is ridiculous.

this wasn't the first time Paris' character was altered, either. it also happened it "Thirty Days":

http://www.cynicscorner.org/voy_5/voy_509.html

So Paris is an Old Salt, eh? And just where exactly did this come from? In four years we've never gotten any indication that this was the case. Sure, we've never seen an ocean on Voyager before, but we have seen Paris playing pool on the holodeck, playing automobile mechanic on the holodeck, playing Captain Proton on the holodeck, etc. We've never seen him sailing the high seas on the holodeck. If his "first love" is the ocean, you'd think it would have manifested itself before this.

imo, "11:59" lacked a point, really. the show could've easily done without it, as it contribued very little character development or the show's plot

 

[Finn]

I hated this episode. One minute Janeway was proud of her ancestor but once she found out she supposedly didn't do what she set out to do, all of a sudden she wasn't so proud anymore and then turns out after some digging her ancestor did so something good after all which made things right after all?

How would you have her behave? I would think many people would have reacted that way after learning that a certain ancestor that they thought was a great leader or achieved greatness only to learn otherwise...

 

[exodus]

this episode was sooo boring. Worse than the holodeck episodes, because usually there's something on the ship going on with those episodes. what irked me the most, though was:

http://www.cynicscorner.org/voy_5/voy_523.html

In another stunning case of retrocharacterization, we learn that Paris is an expert on all the Mars missions. And just in time, too; otherwise Janeway might never have learned the shocking truth about her ancestor. Come on: "Paris' ancestor must have known the Captain's ancestor!" -- they say everyone has a "small world" story to tell, but this is ridiculous.

this wasn't the first time Paris' character was altered, either. it also happened it "Thirty Days":

http://www.cynicscorner.org/voy_5/voy_509.html

So Paris is an Old Salt, eh? And just where exactly did this come from? In four years we've never gotten any indication that this was the case. Sure, we've never seen an ocean on Voyager before, but we have seen Paris playing pool on the holodeck, playing automobile mechanic on the holodeck, playing Captain Proton on the holodeck, etc. We've never seen him sailing the high seas on the holodeck. If his "first love" is the ocean, you'd think it would have manifested itself before this.

imo, "11:59" lacked a point, really. the show could've easily done without it, as it contribued very little character development or the show's plot

The stuff with Paris does make perfect sense if you keep it in the context in which he says it. He said "My father used to read me stories of Jules Vern-10,000 Leagues Under the Sea." If his father is reading him stories, Tom must be only a little boy. So saying" My first love was sailing." is the same as a kid saying: "I wanna grow up to be a Fireman." Just because you wanna be a Fireman when you're a child doesn't mean you're going to play in the holodeck as one when your 30.

Same applies to the MARS missions. Paris' love of the MARS missions is equal to a pre-teens love of Dinosaurs or Star Wars.

The cynicscorner isn't very bright because he's thinking Tom's living his entire life in just 7 years on Voyager and that he had no type of life experances before that. Which is a lesson on why you can't trust online unprofessional critiques because they post before thinking it through or asking somebody.

 

[Jeri]

^ ^ Great discussion; I like that, thanks.

 

[Katatak47]

I happened to love this episode - just because it was so different than the typical story Voyager would tell. Yes - no aliens, no Borg, no time travel. Just a humble, quiet story about real people and their lives. I liked to see Kate playing a character who was less forceful and strong than Janeway.

About the only thing that disappointed me, and it was a mild disappointment at that, was Janeway's seemingly critical assessment that her once vaunted relative was not as important as she'd originally believed. While I can believe the character's initial deflation at the discovery, I wished the reaction could have been tempered with more understanding in the end. It just made her seem momentarily petulant and even petty for someone of her stature. Otherwise, I really did enjoy the subtleties of the storyline.

 

[Danny99]

I have a hard time liking this episode. Perhaps if it had come earlier in VOY's run when Janeway's character was being introduced, it would've been better.

 

[Finn]

I have a hard time liking this episode. Perhaps if it had come earlier in VOY's run when Janeway's character was being introduced, it would've been better.

How so?

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Would've been better if the owner of the Double Deuce had just called in Dalton to deal with those developers.

Urban myth/half-truths in the episode:

He hands her the requisition reports for that week and asks her what she could tell him about the Great Wall of China who built it and why. Janeway states the obvious, that it was built by the Chinese to keep people out. When they enter the turbolift, Janeway orders it to deck one, while Neelix tells her more facts about the wall and that it was one of the only objects before the 22nd century that could be seen from Earth's orbit with the naked eye. Janeway congratulates Neelix with his knowledge about Earth.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Now I did like this episode...

Even if it utterly contradicts Futures End when Janeway Claims that she doesn't know what her ancestors where up to in the 1990s... But it proves just how insane the logic working in the writers minds are that Janeway is supposed to feel that she has always been inspired by what Shannon never was in her mind until recently retroactively to her childhood when she aspired for the stars in need of a good female role model other than Amelia of course. Her childhood was raped by something as innocuous as "the truth", and she chose to pretend that black is white... As if Amelia wasn't a disappointment enough with her turn of the century education, that beyond the legend she was little more than a knuckle dragging cave woman.

Why can't Janeway have any heroes?

Shannon along with Raine Robinson feature a little bit in the Noonian Khan Sing novels.

 

[exodus]

Now I did like this episode...

Even if it utterly contradicts Futures End when Janeway Claims that she doesn't know what her ancestors where up to in the 1990s... But it proves just how insane the logic working in the writers minds are that Janeway is supposed to feel that she has always been inspired by what Shannon never was in her mind until recently retroactively to her childhood when she aspired for the stars in need of a good female role model other than Amelia of course. Her childhood was raped by something as innocuous as "the truth", and she chose to pretend that black is white... As if Amelia wasn't a disappointment enough with her turn of the century education, that beyond the legend she was little more than a knuckle dragging cave woman.

Why can't Janeway have any heroes?

Shannon along with Raine Robinson feature a little bit in the Noonian Khan Sing novels.

I don't see what she said in "Future's End" as a contradiction.

Janeway didn't know what her ancestors were doing in the 90's but she knew of Shannon O'Donnell and some info about her from the change of the decaded going forward.

However, discovering much of Janeway knows of O"Donnell isn't accurate can also be taken into account as not knowing much of her ancestors.

So either way, I think it covers the bases of Janeway's statement in "Future's End".

As far as Janeway not having an heroes. Many of the "heroes" we look up to today usually end up being extremely flawed. Art imitating life I guess.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Was she passionate about Davinchi before the program appeared? She enjoyed the hell out of him after he did turn up speckled after the 4th season begun.

I was watching Flashback yesterday and despite a nice speach wth Kim about how romantic Jim Kirk's era was, she had to ask Tuvok "IF" Kirk and McCoy escaped Rua Penthe? So she's not a fan of those two.

 

[TheGodBen]

I liked this episode. Sure, there was serious retconning going on, but it was a nice character episode long after Voyager had given up on them. There was no jeopardy, just people. It wasn't inspired, but it sure was pleasant.

 

[exodus]

Was she passionate about Davinchi before the program appeared? She enjoyed the hell out of him after he did turn up speckled after the 4th season begun.

I was watching Flashback yesterday and despite a nice speach wth Kim about how romantic Jim Kirk's era was, she had to ask Tuvok "IF" Kirk and McCoy escaped Rua Penthe? So she's not a fan of those two.

Just sounds like History isn't her strong suit.
Honetly, I never understood how or why Starfleet Captain could spout history like the back of their hands. How many Earth Navy Captains can do that?