10 Starship "Holy Grails"

[David cgc]

The Excelsior line is really clunky. The travel pod scene isn't really Sulu's "moment," which it would have to be to justify the line's inclusion, it's just some more business about how life is leaving Kirk behind. The most obvious edit is an improvement, too, having Sulu just leave it at "Any chance to go about the Enterprise," is much, much better without continuing to "...however briefly, is always an excuse for nostalgia."

Though, discussing the line also brings to mind Takai's weird insistence about wanting to be made a captain in the movies, even though it would mean he'd be less involved in the stories overall and easier to cut out entirely if it happened any earlier than it did. If Sulu actually had been made captain of the Excelsior in TSFS, there's a good chance that would've been the last we saw of him if the movies developed anything like how they did in the real world.

The thing I wonder is what the behind-the-scenes intent was with giving the new ship in TSFS the same name Sulu's prospective command in TWOK. The novelizations assumed they were one-and-the-same, but I wonder if it was just that someone behind the scenes liked the name and wanted to get it on-screen somehow, somewhere.

 

[Ithekro]

I don't know about Peter being 14, since that seems too young even for Starfleet, but a crush on Saavik is not unreasonable. You have seen what Saavik/Kirstie Alley looked like back then, yes?

 

[137th Gebirg]

OH yes! I was 12 when I first saw TWOK in the theater and I remember having a BIG old crush on Saavik/Kirstie Alley, well into her Cheers days.

 

[Tuskin38]

This is why I keep saying that a proposed DS9 remaster should replace all the old CGI fleet shots with different ships. But I'm not under any illusions that this will happen, even if DS9 gets remastered in the first place.

Guess it would really depend on the budget and who is in charge. If Mike Okuda is brought in again, it will probably be as a close as possible to the original FX.

 

[Dukhat]

Guess it would really depend on the budget and who is in charge. If Mike Okuda is brought in again, it will probably be as a close as possible to the original FX.

That would depend on if he has the mindset of what happened with TOS-R, or what happened with TNG-R.

 

[Dukhat]

Small update: Adam Buckner has posted new photos of his Jupp kitbash that ultimately wasn’t used on screen:

https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/u-s-s-jupp-ds9-reference.356068/

 

[Macintosh]

It's rather strange that the TWOK novelization says Peter is only 14 as a cadet. And had a crush on her, no less.

Some sort of pre-academy school-age cadet perhaps? Something like the Combined Cadet Force in the UK or the Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps in the US? That would make it even more tragic that children were caught up in Khan's machinations.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Small update: Adam Buckner has posted new photos of his Jupp kitbash that ultimately wasn’t used on screen:

https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/u-s-s-jupp-ds9-reference.356068/

Most interesting to me is the heavy, almost caked-on, paint job and extensive of TNG decals including the TNG-style transporter emitters. This was supposed to be a Constitution variant, not something newer, right? ...

 

[Cyfa]

Small update: Adam Buckner has posted new photos of his Jupp kitbash that ultimately wasn’t used on screen:
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/u-s-s-jupp-ds9-reference.356068/

~ Aw, the comedy "duck tail" is adorable!

Most interesting to me is the heavy, almost caked-on, paint job and extensive of TNG decals including the TNG-style transporter emitters. This was supposed to be a Constitution variant, not something newer, right? ...

~ I like to think that had the Jupp been seen on screen, any visible TNG-style decals etc would indicate that the ship had been refit with current tech in order to continue its service into the mid-late 24th century. (Something that might have been nice to see with all those Mirandas and Excelsiors flying around...)

 

[publiusr]

I might have flipped the nacelles…

 

[David cgc]

Most interesting to me is the heavy, almost caked-on, paint job and extensive of TNG decals including the TNG-style transporter emitters. This was supposed to be a Constitution variant, not something newer, right? ...

The first-generation STO models of movie-era ships like the Miranda and Constitution II were rough as hell, and it’s totally for the best that they’ve been upgraded, but I did like how they had 24th century detailing like phaser strips and transporter emitters to suggest they’d kept up with the times.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I might have flipped the nacelles…

I probably would have too. The model was supposed to be for DS9’s “A Time to Stand” in 1997 and, IIRC, AMT’s Reliant kit was released in or around 1995 (and being used for other background ship designs). This means that kit-bashable top-mounted underslung warp engines would have been available to use to make them look “correct”. I’m guessing either he didn’t have any such kits available when he built it and didn’t have the time to mod the Connie engines, or it was nothing more than a simple design choice to make it look a little different from what came before.

 

[Dukhat]

I probably would have too. The model was supposed to be for DS9’s “A Time to Stand” in 1997 and, IIRC, AMT’s Reliant kit was released in or around 1995 (and being used for other background ship designs). This means that kit-bashable top-mounted underslung warp engines would have been available to use to make them look “correct”. I’m guessing either he didn’t have any such kits available when he built it and didn’t have the time to mod the Connie engines, or it was nothing more than a simple design choice to make it look a little different from what came before.

Oh, there were plenty of Reliant kits available, as AMT over-produced them. You can even see Mr. Buckner standing in front of boxes of them when he posed for his pic with the Jupp:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Jupp

As for the mounting of the nacelles: it’s funny because I’ve been toying with building replicas of both his Jupp and his Bradford, and I’ve noticed that the Enterprise-A nacelles work better with the Bradford and the Reliant nacelles would have worked better with the Jupp, but he did the reverse. Oh well. Since the mounting rod would have been placed on the top of the saucer with the bridge module removed, maybe the ship’s orientation would actually have been upside down, which would make the nacelles facing the ‘right’ way.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Something that might have been nice to see with all those Miranda's and Excelsior's flying around...)

Yes, updating the looks of those models would go far to making it less debatable that those classes of ships should "actually" have been seen in DS9.

he did the reverse

A Movie-era Constitution-class model is shown in some TNG episodes with it nacelles sideways. Maybe they can the design can be rotated in-universe for some technical reason?

 

[Macintosh]

A Movie-era Constitution-class model is shown in some TNG episodes with it nacelles sideways. Maybe they can the design can be rotated in-universe for some technical reason?

I believe a desktop model is shown in Leah Brahms's office "Booby Trap"...

I read an interesting fan theory that this was an early testbed for what became the Constellation-class, testing the warp dynamics of the Constitution-refit nacelles turned through 90 degrees and with a saucer with a lot of shuttle and/or cargo bays around its perimeter edge.

 

[Richard Baker]

I can see that in a way. The Constellation had paired nacelle sets, but they were paired port and starboard. Turning one pair dormant would put the warp field on one side of the ship, to be practical they would need to take the upper or lower sets offline so sideways pairing would need to be to tested first.

 

[publiusr]

The Ent D almost looks to really have four coils—it looks like two domes behind each nacelle cap..Ent-E has three.

A 1/537 with four might be interesting

 

[Macintosh]

The Ent D almost looks to really have four coils—it looks like two domes behind each nacelle cap..Ent-E has three.

You mean these things?

Those twin internal lights are the ionising beam emitters. They're part of the Bussard collectors and their job is to project a beam ahead of the ship to ionise interstellar hydrogen, which is then collected by magnetic fields generated by those gold-coloured vents immediately behind the endcaps. They aren't anything to do with the warp coils, which are further back behind the blue bits. The Enterprise-D had 36 warp coils in total, 18 in each nacelle.

Interestingly the Syracuse had three ionising beam emitters in each nacelle endcap... we might assume this was a standard upgrade given to Galaxy-class starships in service in the 2370s or 2380s.

Even more interestingly the Enterprise-D that appears in Picard's dream at the beginning of the very first episode of Star Trek: Picard also had three...

...Wibbly-wobbly dreamy-weamy I suppose!

 

[Dukhat]

You mean these things?

Those twin internal lights are the ionising beam emitters. They're part of the Bussard collectors and their job is to project a beam ahead of the ship to ionise interstellar hydrogen, which is then collected by magnetic fields generated by those gold-coloured vents immediately behind the endcaps. They aren't anything to do with the warp coils, which are further back behind the blue bits. The Enterprise-D had 36 warp coils in total, 18 in each nacelle.

Interestingly the Syracuse had three ionising beam emitters in each nacelle endcap... we might assume this was a standard upgrade given to Galaxy-class starships in service in the 2370s or 2380s.

Even more interestingly the Enterprise-D that appears in Picard's dream at the beginning of the very first episode of Star Trek: Picard also had three...

...Wibbly-wobbly dreamy-weamy I suppose!

They're just visually retconning the bussard collectors to look like the ones from DSC, even though they never looked that way in TNG. Just like that hologram of the Discoprise in season 1.

 

[Macintosh]

They're just visually retconning the bussard collectors to look like the ones from DSC, even though they never looked that way in TNG. Just like that hologram of the Discoprise in season 1.

I thought that with the s01e01 appearance, certainly.