Hey, you're the one insisting on making comparisons, I'm just trying to follow through with your train of thought.
“Jean-Luc Picard is back”: will new Picard show eclipse Discovery?
- Thread starter Groppler Zorn
- Start date
I think it's less about "not noticing" a change in actor as not getting bent out of shape about it. I don't think anyone is really insisting that they can't literally tell the difference between, say, Kirstie Alley and Robin Curtis. They're just saying that they like Saavik as a character and, when watching the movie, aren't bothered by the fact that she's now being played by somebody new. Or that they like the character of Spock enough that they want to see more of him, even if he's played by a succession of different actors.
It's the difference saying "I'm a big James Bond fan and can't wait for the next movie" and "I'm a big Sean Connery fan and refuse to accept anyone else playing Bond."
There is also the middle ground of being able to like several actors as Bond whilst realising that their takes on the role are quite different thus making the character they portray different and that they have differnt cultural significances and associations. Picard returning whilst being recast as Vin Diesel would quintessentially be completely different thing than Sir Patrick reprising the role, it would create completely different audience expectations and would probably attract quite a different audience.
I mean if these things wouldn't matter, why you think they dragged the original cast back for the new Star Wars films? Seeing them again in those iconic roles was a big thing for many people (as mixed as the reactions may have been) and the Picard thing is the same. It is in no way comparable of Spock being recast second time.
I'm going to laugh if/when they do a Picard flashback, and get James McAvoy to play the younger version of Picard; andf then watch TNG fans fawn all over said episode. (And BTW Mr. McAvoy's portrayal of a younger "Professor X" didn't seem to affect the FOX "X-Men" film franchise success in a negative way and hell some TNG fans ARE hoping they get him for "Younger Picard" flashbacks if the series goes that route with a storyline.)
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but my reaction isn't "Horary Patrick Stewart is back!" My reaction is more of an interest in what the character is going to be doing. Because that's why I watch shows. I don't care about the actors in the sense that I am watching for that actor. I'm watching the show because I am interested in the character.
You can speak about "the many" regarding viewers wanting iconic characters. That's not why I watch shows. I just want interesting characters portrayed in a way that I forget about the actors and am invested in the character and their journey.
It's not that they "don't matter." It's just a matter of how much of an impact they have on my overall enjoyment of the characters. In that case, the actor themselves ranks lower because I am more invested in the character. I don't know the actor, have no personal relationship with them, and can guarantee that Nimoy, Quinto and Peck are all completely different in person than when portraying Spock. But, I am heavily invested in the character of Spock. In that instance, I want to see the character, not the actor.
Other people will react differently.
You know what would really be nice? A bond that would completely break the conventions, IE female, Asian and lesbian!!!
That would really be good!
Plus there would still be Bond girls aplenty!
Michelle Yeoh could do it. She already has experience on being in Bond films. She would easily be better Bond than Brosnan.
Great choice!
Trivia: by my count, at least three Bond girls also have Trek connections: Teri Hatcher, Famke Jannsen, and Yeoh.
Doesn't mean anything. Just find it interesting.
It makes fan fiction a lot easier
The actors are a BIG part in a character coming to live - the main reason why Spock got SO famous in pop-culture was Leonard Nimoy's portrayal. At that time, the "completely logical alien" was a very common SF-trope. It's what Nimoy did with it that people reacted so much to.
When Quinto stepped into the footsteps of that famous character - that was a big deal. And Quinto was good, even though he never achieved the same level as Nimoy with the character. (Hard to do, if more than half of what the character actually is was defined by the other person).
As far as Peck goes:
The casting was so far the strongest aspect of DIS overall, so I'm pretty sure he will play a very above-average Vulcan. But as far as I'm concerned, he could have been Xon, or Sovals son, or literally any other Vulcan else. There is just not that much excitement for the character anymore, if he gets swapped out every two years.
I like Tom Holland as Spider-Man, I couldn't care less about Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man. It just becomes generic at a certain point. The thing was other, famous, regularly recast characters (say, James Bond, or Batman), is that each actor is basically allowed to interprete a completely different and new iteration of the core character. For Spock - everyone is always pretty much bound to do an impression of Nimoy's interpretation.
For that matter: The return of Patrick Stewart as Picard is a BIG fucking deal! Like, half of the excitement for this show is simply because this famous actor is returning to this role that made him famous, and vice versa. If they had announced a Picard show with, I don't know, Tom Hardy as Cpt. Picard, most people simply wouldn't give a shit.
I really like Michelle Yeoh. But she doesn't have the necessary British dialect for the role. Yes, THAT'S the criteria I have for someone to be a convincing James Bond.
When Quinto stepped into the footsteps of that famous character - that was a big deal. And Quinto was good, even though he never achieved the same level as Nimoy with the character. (Hard to do, if more than half of what the character actually is was defined by the other person).
As far as Peck goes:
The casting was so far the strongest aspect of DIS overall, so I'm pretty sure he will play a very above-average Vulcan. But as far as I'm concerned, he could have been Xon, or Sovals son, or literally any other Vulcan else. There is just not that much excitement for the character anymore, if he gets swapped out every two years.
I like Tom Holland as Spider-Man, I couldn't care less about Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man. It just becomes generic at a certain point. The thing was other, famous, regularly recast characters (say, James Bond, or Batman), is that each actor is basically allowed to interprete a completely different and new iteration of the core character. For Spock - everyone is always pretty much bound to do an impression of Nimoy's interpretation.
For that matter: The return of Patrick Stewart as Picard is a BIG fucking deal! Like, half of the excitement for this show is simply because this famous actor is returning to this role that made him famous, and vice versa. If they had announced a Picard show with, I don't know, Tom Hardy as Cpt. Picard, most people simply wouldn't give a shit.
I really like Michelle Yeoh. But she doesn't have the necessary British dialect for the role. Yes, THAT'S the criteria I have for someone to be a convincing James Bond.
I must be an outlier then since that sounds more interesting than what's been announced thus far...
The other big thing about Picard show is not only Patrick Stewart …. but we are charting new territory again. This whole prequel thing where everything has to lead to what we already know happened takes a lot of the drama out of it. They aren't exploring anything - they are filling in gaps. While I'm more excited about Patrick Stewart. I would have chosen a Tom Hardy Picard Post Nemesis over Patrick Stewart on the Stargazer series (I know age wise they couldn't do that but just the point of I would choose continuing narrative over bringing back prior castmember).
So I'm excited we get both - Patrick Stewart and Post-Nemesis. Perfect new show. I do really hope we get episodes exploring the future of the other characters. I would think we would be hard pressed never to see Beverly, Riker, Troy, and Worf. Beverly is too closely tied to Picard. And Riker, Tory, Worf have always been the most ready to come back for more. I actually wouldn't mind seeing an older Wesley as a re-occurring character (they really sold that character short cutting scenes out of Nemesis). Actually, Wesley as Riker's first officer now would make complete sense.
Post Nemesis is the direction all future shows need to go. What makes the TNG/DS9/Voyager era great is your exploring new things and created a large amount of Star Trek mythology. A Picard Show, along with maybe star fleet academy show set in same time period sounds great. A Khan show ?… seriously we know how that all ends.
So I'm excited we get both - Patrick Stewart and Post-Nemesis. Perfect new show. I do really hope we get episodes exploring the future of the other characters. I would think we would be hard pressed never to see Beverly, Riker, Troy, and Worf. Beverly is too closely tied to Picard. And Riker, Tory, Worf have always been the most ready to come back for more. I actually wouldn't mind seeing an older Wesley as a re-occurring character (they really sold that character short cutting scenes out of Nemesis). Actually, Wesley as Riker's first officer now would make complete sense.
Post Nemesis is the direction all future shows need to go. What makes the TNG/DS9/Voyager era great is your exploring new things and created a large amount of Star Trek mythology. A Picard Show, along with maybe star fleet academy show set in same time period sounds great. A Khan show ?… seriously we know how that all ends.
But that's not possible! You said it doesn't matter to you who the actor is!I must be an outlier then since that sounds more interesting than what's been announced thus far...
I love how there is the excitement at exploring "new territory" and the an eagerness to show all the old characters.
I don't get excited over actors. It doesn't mean I can't acknowledge them, just that my excitement and enjoyment are not tied to the actors or that somehow I should be over the moon because Patrick Stewart is back.
As a final note, it's pretty clear that this is a difference of experience and one that does not seem to be translating well in text. Could you please not try to find fault in my experience?
Tom Hardy would mean a younger Picard which interests me more than older Picard. Again, it's about character.
I don't get excited over actors. It doesn't mean I can't acknowledge them, just that my excitement and enjoyment are not tied to the actors or that somehow I should be over the moon because Patrick Stewart is back.
As a final note, it's pretty clear that this is a difference of experience and one that does not seem to be translating well in text. Could you please not try to find fault in my experience?
I think its wrong to bring in too much old characters … I think its important though in showing continuity from what we have seen before.
Seeing old faces teaching at star fleet, admirals, retired and saying hello. Gives closure to those characters. Having them all jump in a Dune Buggy and head out to blast aliens …. yea I'll pass on that part.
I think showing the future but not having Riker/Troy/Beverly at a minimum in that future for Picard is a mistake. But I think it should be more then that and give every character their ride off into the sunset (and that includes better closure for Sisko as well).
Closure can be fairly simple - I think we got closure with Janeway (seeing her as admiral and back in the fold in Nemesis). But what about the others.
Seeing old faces teaching at star fleet, admirals, retired and saying hello. Gives closure to those characters. Having them all jump in a Dune Buggy and head out to blast aliens …. yea I'll pass on that part.
I think showing the future but not having Riker/Troy/Beverly at a minimum in that future for Picard is a mistake. But I think it should be more then that and give every character their ride off into the sunset (and that includes better closure for Sisko as well).
Closure can be fairly simple - I think we got closure with Janeway (seeing her as admiral and back in the fold in Nemesis). But what about the others.
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