“Heaven Sent” Grade and Discussion Thread

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well that was mostly good.

The best bit was the last 2 minutes. "I am the hybrid." Hey I'm excited.

I can't but hardly wait till next week and how they either conclude this or hit us with a reset button. I just hope this isn't all just whitewashed away so they can have the zany christmas adventure with no lasting memories..

I like Ashildr but feel she has to pay for what she's done.

 

[Skellington]

I had a sense of the get-on-with-its about 15 or 20 minutes into this episode. Nevertheless it's a brave experiment that shows justified confidence in its lead, and head-Clara's dialogue if nithing else shows that it's no semantic exercise. I had wondered if they would spend 25-30 minutes with Capaldi as the sole speaker and then have the plot take a twist in the direction of Gallifrey, but they actually went the distance after taking a breather with the Clara dialogue. Respect.

I think the episode asks a lot in suspension of disbelief. That energy loop would need to be pretty much entirely free of entropy and the "teleporter" (a title now revealed to be, if not exactly a euphemism, then at least potentially disingenuous) would need to be equally perfect.
(Edit: Forgot - It was apparently all in the confession dial and essentially a nightmare. Oops.)

Capaldi's rendition of the poem at the start is masterful. The words seem familiar to me, but I can't place them. Ring a bell with anyone?

In any case, I'm going with One Man Army.

 

[USS KG5]

I assume Moffatt was using UK billion (1,000,000,000,000) rather than the US billion (1,000,000,000).

Typically the US billion is used in the UK as well these days.

 

[DS9Continuing]

I made a joke two years ago, while discussing the season seven finale "The Name of the Doctor". Maybe it's about to come true?

Here's a mindscrew for you. We see Clara on Gallifrey, but presumably she is still biologically human. If she went to every point in his timeline, she must have been there right at the beginning of his very existence.

What if one of the things she did to ensure his safety was to create him in the first place, Emissary-style? What if, not knowing the significance of her actions, she shagged a Gallifreyan bloke and gave birth to a baby?

That would make the Doctor half-human, on his mother's side.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I loved everything about this episode (except one small part). Peter Capaldi's performance, the shifting castle, The Doctor's mind castle, the cyclinical and tragic nature of The Doctor's predictament, and the thematic exploration of The Doctor's fears.

The only thing I didn't like, which is connected to the season's ongoing arc, is The Doctor declaring he's the hybrid. Not because of the half-human possibility, but it doesn't seem to fit. I can't really say why it doesn't seem fit, it just doesn't.

One thing I would've like to have in regards to exploring The Doctor's fears is how he sometimes lets down his companions, even to their own grave. Yes, saw some of that with Clara but I wanted to how that relates in the long term. Before it was revealed otherwise in a later episode, I chose to believe what The Doctor saw behind his door in "The God Complex" was his companions' mortality. I still think that makes more sense than the Time Crack and it's a theme that would've worked very nicely here. Alas.

For the third time this season, I was briefly reminded of The Sandman. I know this tangetial at best, but when we first saw the Veil, I thought of Destiny, sans his chained book. Some people here and the previous episode thread have suggested Harry Potter influences, but I would say there have even stronger Neil Gaiman influences from at least The Sandman and Neverwhere.

I have to say I'm amused by the varying resonses towards this episode, often polar opposites. For instance, I loved the patient near-one-man storytelling pace but didn't like anything about the hybrid and prophecy, whereas others are the reverse. At least most seem to agree the music was beautiful.

I won't see the final episode until a week after it airs because I'll be traveling in Spain, but it's just as well: the episode doesn't fill me with much excitement.

 

[TommyR01D]

He's half human

I thought that, too. Then I thought of many fans' heads exploding at that being brought back.
http://www.trekbbs.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

I had thought the general consensus was that there were some parts of the 1996 film which, if they could not be totally extracted from canon, should at least never be mentioned again so that we could all pretend they never happened.

That "I'm half human!" moment was certainly among them.

I'm also starting to think that calling the immortal Viking girl "Me" was a decision made solely to provide this brief bit of uncertainty during the run up to the finale (and perhaps during it).

 

[Mr Light]

I didn't even notice the music, but then again I usually don't

I'm assuming the hybrid thing isn't to be taken literally. It's not that the Doctor has 50% Dalek DNA or summat, but that's he's symbolically half Dalek because of his blood thirsty nature at times. He destroyed the entire Dalek race and the Time Lord race, at least until Moffat ret-conned it away...

 

[JoeZhang]

I didn't even notice the music, but then again I usually don't

I'm assuming the hybrid thing isn't to be taken literally. It's not that the Doctor has 50% Dalek DNA or summat, but that's he's symbolically half Dalek because of his blood thirsty nature at times. He destroyed the entire Dalek race and the Time Lord race, at least until Moffat ret-conned it away...

Isn't it more likely that he its because he represents both the Time Lords and the poor we see hanging around the Barn? He's a hybrid of both parts of society on Gallifrey.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Isn't it more likely that he its because he represents both the Time Lords and the poor we see hanging around the Barn? He's a hybrid of both parts of society on Gallifrey.

I like your interpretation. Gallifreyan society certainly seems very stratified into separate social classes. You have the elite Time Lords in their ivory tower (citadel), deliberately walled off from the masses kept outside. Maybe when the Doctor says that he will be stand in the ruins of Gallifrey, he is speaking of breaking down that barrier between the classes. It would also explain why the Time Lords don't like the Doctor since they would seem him as a threat to their privilege and power.

 

[Stoo]

I'm guessing when the Doctor says "the hybrid.... is me" he means Lady Me.

Anyway that episode was intriguing. The doctor doomed to punch a wall, die, repeat, for 2 billion years, until he breaks through. In a castle surrounded by his own skulls. It's a mix of horror and dark fairytale.

 

[Starkers]

For the third time this season, I was briefly reminded of The Sandman. I know this tangetial at best, but when we first saw the Veil, I thought of Destiny, sans his chained book. Some people here and the previous episode thread have suggested Harry Potter influences, but I would say there have even stronger Neil Gaiman influences from at least The Sandman and Neverwhere.

Oh yes there's been a definite Gaiman vibe for the last three episodes now (was Sleep No More the third episode you meant?) without ever feeling like Neverwhere/Sandman has been ripped off.

I was also reminded of Christopher Nolan's The Prestige by this episode.

And yes, the music was just wonderful.

 

[shivkala]

I voted "One in a Million." I really loved the episode. Too often we get the Doctor playing off of others around him. Here even though we get a little bit of Clara, but even then, it was really the Doctor.

While someone up-thread called it too much like Sherlock, I did like seeing how the Doctor thinks. I loved knowing everything the Doctor did was for a reason, especially when I really bought that he dropped his magnifying lens out of fear.

Speaking of fear, am I the only one who sees the connection between this episode and last season's "Listen"? That episode was a meditation on fear and this continues that theme. The episode left open whether or not the threat was real or manufactured. It also referred to something that terrified the Doctor in his childhood, which he might have revealed here (the confession did stop the Veil).

Since RTD's time, we've been sold the fact that the Doctor travelling alone is bad for everyone. Here, we don't see that. He's channeled everything into solving the puzzle.

As far as "The Hybrid is....Me," I'm not saying that's not what Moffatt is going to do, but at the same time, 12 created her, centuries after he was involved in the Time War. That doesn't quite fit with the prophecy that the Hybrid was created pre-Time War.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

On a side note, I've noticed many of my American colleagues disliking the episode. I watched it without American-styled commercial breaks; I'm wondering if that severely compromised the pacing of the episode.

BBC America's commercial breaks compromise the pacing of every episode. They impose an artificial five-act structure on an episode that isn't structured for that.

For me, one of the problems with the commercial breaks is that they give me time to think about what I've been watching, which means that the cracks in the storytelling become more apparent as the episode unfolds.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

As far as "The Hybrid is....Me," I'm not saying that's not what Moffatt is going to do, but at the same time, 12 created her, centuries after he was involved in the Time War. That doesn't quite fit with the prophecy that the Hybrid was created pre-Time War.

There's also the whole how is someone who is really only immortal as long as they don't take serious injuries and has no access to time travel or space travel a threat to a race that can move planets, build weapons that cancel out Timelord regeneration, can do all sorts of crazy stuff with time itself, and who were able to INTIMIDATE said immortal.

Plus again the Doctor usually refers to her as Ashildr not Me.

 

[Saul]

I liked this episode. At first I wasn't sure about it and thought my mind would wonder off but it kept my attention and is certainly one of the better episodes of this season. Unfortunately the BBC press release spoiled the ending for me though. Feck it.

 

[ATimson]

Since RTD's time, we've been sold the fact that the Doctor travelling alone is bad for everyone. Here, we don't see that. He's channeled everything into solving the puzzle.

He started off going down that route (remember his speech each time he arrives?); the only thing that stopped him was his impotence to do anything to the veiled figure.

BBC America's commercial breaks compromise the pacing of every episode. They impose an artificial five-act structure on an episode that isn't structured for that.

I'd have to go back and check but at least for "Heaven Sent" I thought most of them were pretty well placed - there were several time jumps creating an effective act break anyways that they were able to use.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

There was an interesting idea in here but I have the feeling I would have enjoyed it more had it not been connected to a story arc. It felt like a wasted episode that moved nothing along, told us nothing new, and spent the best part of an hour trying to convince us how clever it was, but in all honesty I feel nothing would have been missed if we went straight from the beam out last week and the beam in at the end of this week.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Knowing Moffat as a man who says something will happen, and that "will happen" is often less than what is implied, I foresee next week's episode as being disappointing.

As an American viewer, I can speak to the disruption resulting from minutes of time dedicated to each commercial break. I recorded the episode on DVR. When I get the chance of watching the program, I fast-forward through the commercials.

The episode subverted my expectation, for based on my experience, the episode would focus on the one who successfully completed the puzzle. Instead, the episode focused on one who failed.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I can't see the "something will happen that'll drive the fans nuts" being "he's half-human" - we've had 20 years to get used to that one.

OTOH, every time I think"Moffat's clever, he'll think of something new and surprising that'll be a big surprise, and not the obvious that's been so telegraphed already..." He doesn't, and goes with the bloody obvious.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

As an American viewer, I can speak to the disruption resulting from minutes of time dedicated to each commercial break. I recorded the episode on DVR. When I get the chance of watching the program, I fast-forward through the commercials.

That's an interesting point. Especially for an episode so built on atmosphere and a singular plot I could see where the commercial breaks did it no favor (and that is how I watched that episode).