No, that's Sarek throwing Sybok in the pool. Spock is in the back with Michael. (I had the same thought at first before I noticed little Spock.)Wait, are they portraying Sybok as the younger brother? It's the other way around.
No, that's Sarek throwing Sybok in the pool. Spock is in the back with Michael. (I had the same thought at first before I noticed little Spock.)Wait, are they portraying Sybok as the younger brother? It's the other way around.
No, that's Sarek throwing Sybok in the pool. Spock is in the back with Michael. (I had the same thought at first before I noticed little Spock.)
Best of Trek seems to be in Google Books (some of the volumes at least). I know a couple forum members have read them systematically, but I just have a couple.
A little bit of poking around tells me some people claim this idea comes from the Star Trek Concordance. I only have access to the 1995 edition, and it is indeed there, cited to "Whom Gods Destroy." Does anyone have an older edition of the Concordance? It's not actually said in "Whom Gods Destroy," but I suppose it could be in the script (which I don't have access to, either).
A little bit of poking around tells me some people claim this idea comes from the Star Trek Concordance. I only have access to the 1995 edition, and it is indeed there, cited to "Whom Gods Destroy." Does anyone have an older edition of the Concordance? It's not actually said in "Whom Gods Destroy," but I suppose it could be in the script (which I don't have access to, either).
Hmm, where is it cited? I have the “Special Book Club” edition from I think 1976. I looked at the blurb for WGD, Spock, Vulcans, and Starfleet Academy, and I didn’t see it.
Yeah, even if the Axanar mission is what integrated Vulcans into the Federation and/or Starfleet (which I think is a reasonable interpretation of the episode), I don't see how you get from there to Spock himself being the first one.I checked my '76 edition of the Concordance already, and I couldn't find any such assertion in the Lexicon entries for Spock or Vulcans. I just double-checked the Spock entry, and it's definitely not there.
I'm guessing the claim in the very problematical 1995 edition (which contains a lot of unsupported conjecture and guesswork and is dreadfully poorly organized) is based on the dialogue exchange in "Destroy" about how the Axanar peace mission had a dream that spread to the stars and allowed Kirk and Spock to become brothers. I've seen that interpreted to mean that the Federation didn't exist or include Vulcans before the Axanar mission, but that's a major reach beyond the evidence.
Indeed it is. Poking around on the Internet, I can see threads both here and on Reddit where people try to trace it, and many people assert that it came out of fandom in the 1970s/80s, but I haven't yet seen any citations to actually support that.So the claim seems to have taken hold widely by the early '90s and is found at the earliest in late-'80s sources. Which still doesn't tell us for sure where it originated, but it seems to narrow down when it originated, and it definitely isn't part of first-generation fan lore. Weird.
Yeah, even if the Axanar mission is what integrated Vulcans into the Federation and/or Starfleet (which I think is a reasonable interpretation of the episode), I don't see how you get from there to Spock himself being the first one.
Indeed it is. Poking around on the Internet, I can see threads both here and on Reddit where people try to trace it, and many people assert that it came out of fandom in the 1970s/80s, but I haven't yet seen any citations to actually support that.
They certainly aren't on top of their dated website copy--in doing my own searches for past online discussions around this topic, that very same passage is quoted verbatim from the official website in Usenet threads going back as far as May 2001, before Enterprise premiered.On the official Star Trek website it says on Spock ( https://www.startrek.com/database_article/spock ) -- Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike as a lieutenant, and later for James T. Kirk.
You think the official Star Trek website of all things would be on top of stuff like this, especially since Trek's current flagship show Discovery outright shows Terral as being in Starfleet well ahead of Spock.
This is part of a scripted exchange between Spock and Chapel in which he claims Sarek married Amanda and had Spock as part of a deliberate plan to explore Human/Vulcan compatibilities.David Gerrold in 1977 said:My father was the first Vulcan Ambassador to Starfleet. Before him, Vulcans wanted to have nothing to do with human beings; but as human beings continued to spread throughout this part of the galaxy, it became obvious that Vulcans would have to understand them.
They certainly aren't on top of their dated website copy--in doing my own searches for past online discussions around this topic, that very same passage is quoted verbatim from the official website in Usenet threads going back as far as May 2001, before Enterprise premiered.
Going back significantly further, David Gerrold comes close to expressing the "First in Starfleet" sentiment in Starlog Issue 8 (September 1977), when he writes out some scenes he'd like to see in the then-upcoming first feature film and has Spock say:
This is part of a scripted exchange between Spock and Chapel in which he claims Sarek married Amanda and had Spock as part of a deliberate plan to explore Human/Vulcan compatibilities.
(On another note, Gerrold says in the same piece that he hopes he can at least personally appear as a crewmember in the same upcoming film, so I'm glad that part worked out for him.)
Thinking this might've emerged, like "Nyota" did, from 1982's Star Trek II Biographies, I also read through that book's entry for Spock. Looking past some obsolete details ("Siblings: None"), he is quoted telling his mother he's "the only Vulcan attending" Starfleet Academy, but not the first; and another excerpt states "that Vulcans were a rarity in Starfleet in his time," but not that they were unheard of. Similarly, Christopher Pike is later quoted telling his brother he has hardly met any Vulcans because "there are sadly few of them in Starfleet."
There are many, many extrapolative/speculative pieces about Spock's life and Vulcans in general throughout The Best of Trek, but a cursory search hasn't so far revealed any asserting that he was the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
The mystery continues.
The way Star Trek does it is the way tie-ins usually work. The only other franchise I know which has Star Wars style interconnected tie-ins is Doctor Who, and I think those tended to just be a few things occasionally connecting, not everything all the time.On another note, the lack of coherence within the Trek "Expanded Universe" has long been a source of frustration to me. I can understand the works not fitting when a new show/movie comes in like Picard or Discovery, but I'd expect they should at least correspond with each other, and this is where Star Wars did infinitely better.
The way Star Trek does it is the way tie-ins usually work. The only other franchise I know which has Star Wars style interconnected tie-ins is Doctor Who, and I think those tended to just be a few things occasionally connecting, not everything all the time.
I know a couple forum members have read them systematically
David Gerrold in 1977 said:My father was the first Vulcan Ambassador to Starfleet.
I never knew this! This isn't even in Memory Beta. It's like they just threw a bunch of letters without vowels together to get Spock's unpronounceable name mentioned in 'Journey to Babel'.![]()
Babylon 5's novel and comic tie-ins were all meant to be canonical, although only two of the nine Dell novels ended up being counted in canon due to difficulties keeping them consistent while the show was in production. Firefly/Serenity has comics presumed to be canonical, and I think it has novels as well, though I don't know if they share continuity.
Well, it's easier with B5 and especially Firefly, with so much of it coming out after the shows ended.
You understand what the Federation is, don't you? It's important. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...It always strikes me as odd to see people say things like this in relation to Star Trek. This seems akin to someone talking about the U.S. Ambassador to the Royal Canadian Navy.
You understand what the Federation is, don't you? It's important. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...
In other words, I hear where you're coming from. Would you feel better if I mentioned that countries do send civilian ambassadors to NATO?
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