• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

‘Star Trek 3′: Roberto Orci Wants to Direct

Status
Not open for further replies.
Now EMPIRE is something else; I really liked it, even though I think it is structurally a mess. I won't say it is more mature than SW, but due perhaps to Kershner, it feels more like it is about something, rather than just lahdeR2dah. For whatever reason, there hasn't been more than a decent couple of reels of any SW made since Gary Kurtz stopped being on the scene.

I hate to 'somewhat' derail the thread with SW talk, but what about the structure in ESB didn't you like?

(ESB is one of my favorite films, so I'm curious)...;)
Since we're talking about "real" Star Trek, here is a scathing review of Empire Strikes Back from 1980 where the writer insists it's an alternate universe and thus not real Star Wars. Sound familiar?
 
Face it, different movies have different sensibilities, even within the same franchise. The series are the same. There is no "wrong" Trek.

If so, then our story tellers can do no wrong (hurrah!). By the same logic, however, they can do nothing right either (boo!), since you can't have a concept of "rightness" without a corresponding concept of "wrongness." In a certain sense, it is undeniably true that Star Trek is as Star Trek does. What Star Trek "is" has always been evolving over the years, although though there common threads we can point to (and the franchises have shown a great deal of sensitivity to narrative rules like "canon") which run throughout Trek offerings. At a descriptive level, you're undeniably right.

Prescriptively, however, in our discussion not of what "is" but what should be, we might find that a particular Trek story does not quite fit normatively within that set we call Star Trek. We might quibble over the particulars, but I think we can satisfactorily arrive at a list of features such as the general "facts" of the Star Trek universe (e.g., the UFP, Prime Directive, Warp travel, phasers), and the outlook of Star Trek (e.g., humanism, optimism, pluralism).

If, for example, Paramount lost their minds and released a hard core porn movie as the next Star Trek release, say a film with no space travel or aliens or anything, just about all of Trek fandom (and the public at large) would agree that some things are NOT properly Star Trek.
 
"Star Trek" has been an incredibly flexible format, which is part of what has given it its longevity. It is hard to compartmentalize, and that can be a strength. Think of the variance in theme and tone of the most popular TOS episodes, everything from "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "A Piece of the Action", to "Balance of Terror" and "Amok Time". Throw in a few clunkers with space hippies, a missing brain, and a gunfight at the OK Corral, and that's one well-rounded franchise even before any movies and spinoffs. And all that in only 69 episodes, to boot.

To that extent, I always come back to the main characters. Whatever the situation is, comedic, dramatic, action, or pathos, if they are being treated well and being shown true to who they are, then that's Trek to me. Of course, even then there can be arguments. Some fans don't like FC because "action Picard" was out of character. Others found it quite right for the situation.
 
If, for example, Paramount lost their minds and released a hard core porn movie as the next Star Trek release, say a film with no space travel or aliens or anything, just about all of Trek fandom (and the public at large) would agree that some things are NOT properly Star Trek.

And yet, it probably would sell, just as a lot of the audience lapped up Carol Marcus' fan-service. Ultimately people buy into what they find entertaining and only a few of us are purists trying to uphold the sanctity of canon or original vision.
 
If, for example, Paramount lost their minds and released a hard core porn movie as the next Star Trek release, say a film with no space travel or aliens or anything, just about all of Trek fandom (and the public at large) would agree that some things are NOT properly Star Trek.

And yet, it probably would sell, just as a lot of the audience lapped up Carol Marcus' fan-service. Ultimately people buy into what they find entertaining and only a few of us are purists trying to uphold the sanctity of canon or original vision.

Um, what exactly was the original vision? Oh, and want to buy an IDIC pin?

Never any fan service in the costumes Bill Theiss put on women in TOS. Nah.
 
Ultimately people buy into what they find entertaining...

If you're not being entertained, then what is the fucking point? I watch Star Trek because I want to be entertained.

...and only a few of us are purists trying to uphold the sanctity of canon or original vision.

I think that is really a poor reason to watch something. I can't think of a more dire existence than one where I'd sit there more worried about checking off boxes of what a Trek movie is "supposed to be" than just sitting there with a big tub of popcorn and someone I love and getting lost in another world for a few hours.
 
Never any fan service in the costumes Bill Theiss put on women in TOS. Nah.

I'm pretty sure Bill Theiss is responsible for my first, uh... _____ when he put Sherry Jackson in outfit with the camel toe from "What are Little Girls Made Of? :lol:
 
I'm pretty sure Bill Theiss is responsible for my first, uh... _____ when he put Sherry Jackson in outfit with the camel toe from "What are Little Girls Made Of? :lol:

This right here is why THE SANCTITY OF CANON (put it in all caps for you there, big D) must, I says must, be upheld. :p

King Daniel Into Darkness said:
here is a scathing review of Empire Strikes Back from 1980

Yeah, this never gets old. Quick, somebody mention Interzone! :devil:
 
I'm pretty sure Bill Theiss is responsible for my first, uh... _____ when he put Sherry Jackson in outfit with the camel toe from "What are Little Girls Made Of? :lol:

This right here is why THE SANCTITY OF CANON (put it in all caps for you there, big D) must, I says must, be upheld. :p

It is the only piece of canon that I'd fight to the death for! :lol:
 
^ Forget that people routinely attempt the gambit "an irrational movie review once existed in the Eighties, therefore all reviews that disagree with me are irrational"? :lol: How could they? I see it about once a week on this board alone.
 
The most humanistic, exploratory, futuristic and even romantic (the only one till 2009 to show an active relationship, not counting Scotty/Uhura in V) Trek film is arguably TMP. It is not held in high popular regard.

(TMP is my personal favorite, the realest Star Trek movie.)
 
^ Forget that people routinely attempt the gambit "an irrational movie review once existed in the Eighties, therefore all reviews that disagree with me are irrational"? :lol: How could they? I see it about once a week on this board alone.

Or it shows that there is a section of fandom that go batshit insane any time you deviate from what they're use to. I'm not talking about the "movie simply didn't work for me" group. I'm talking about the "OMG!!! They raped my childhood!" group.

For the record, Star Trek: The Motion Picture is my favorite Trek film. I didn't see TWOK as some massive deviation from TMP, not do I see the Abrams films as some massive deviation from those two films, especially when you factor in changing technology and audience demands. They are all recognizably "Trek" to me.
 
Or it shows that there is a section of fandom that go batshit insane any time you deviate from what they're use to.

Or at any rate that anyone who isn't on board with the latest product will be loudly and repeatedly told that they're part of "a section of fandom that go batshit insane any time you deviate from what they're use to," regardless of context or the actual content of the movie. Yes, I know. :p

Brutal Strudel said:
(TMP is my personal favorite, the realest Star Trek movie.)

For as much as its wannabe-Kubrickian style is mocked in retrospect, it was certainly a license to print money at the time. I think it's still the single most profitable Trek movie. (And I do admire that it's a real exploration of the majesty and mystery of space and has a pretty classic Trek problem-solving plot.)

Bit dull for my money, though. I can see why its reputation ultimately suffered.
 
Or at any rate that anyone who isn't on board with the latest product will be loudly and repeatedly told that they're part of "a section of fandom that go batshit insane any time you deviate from what they're use to," regardless of context or the actual content of the movie. Yes, I know. :p

Can you show where I've treated anyone in that manner? I don't think so. I'll debate the merits of the film with anyone, I'll also call non-sense on the "it's not Star Trek", "OMG!!! Star Trek never did that!" and the "Abrams raped my childhood!!!" crowds.
 
Can you show where I've treated anyone in that manner? I don't think so.

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us! ;)

(By which I mean to say, signing on to deliberately vague and sweeping propositions about the supposedly "batshit insane" is of course what the whole "let's quote a random Eighties kook review" game is almost always about, so if you don't think you're soaking in it you're probably mistaken. Not that you're the worst offender or anything, not by a long shot.)
 
Last edited:
If, for example, Paramount lost their minds and released a hard core porn movie as the next Star Trek release, say a film with no space travel or aliens or anything, just about all of Trek fandom (and the public at large) would agree that some things are NOT properly Star Trek.

And yet, it probably would sell, just as a lot of the audience lapped up Carol Marcus' fan-service. Ultimately people buy into what they find entertaining and only a few of us are purists trying to uphold the sanctity of canon or original vision.

Um, what exactly was the original vision? Oh, and want to buy an IDIC pin?

Never any fan service in the costumes Bill Theiss put on women in TOS. Nah.

Don't forget the other 'visions' GR had for Star Trek:

- Let's cast my mistress (Majel Baret) in a lead role as "Number One"; and when the network Execs call me on it; I'll blame them as being 'closed minded'.

or

- Hey let me write some lyrics to the Star Trek theme song that I never intend to actually use after the fact, so I can get 50% of the royalties from the actual author per the contract agreement.
^^^
Yep, a lot of 'sanctity' there all right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top