Season 4 First Clip

Captain Jollydark said:

It's weird that no one seems to be mentioning the gay married couple who were awesome and wonderfully portrayed. Adira and Gray were not my favorite, adorable as they were. I kind of felt like the actors themselves were too inexperienced and didn't have the chops to meet the moment. That's my take. Hugh and Paul were perfect though. Also, I fucking love Discovery.

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Stamets & Culbert never really disappointed. But IMO sometimes fall into the (very mild) trope of being the "too perfect" gay model couple.
I liked early Stamets more when he was kind of an asshole sometimes, and would also have liked to see some up and downs in their relationship. But that's a DIS problem in general, being way too saccharine later on.

I love SNW to death. But it's also very heteronormative. They could have benefited from an Adira in their crew. Though they 100% would emotionally wreck her relationship(s) for good drama.

Rahul said:

Stamets & Culbert never really disappointed. But IMO sometimes fall into the (very mild) trope of being the "too perfect" gay model couple.
I liked early Stamets more when he was kind of an asshole sometimes, and would also have liked to see some up and downs in their relationship. But that's a DIS problem in general, being way too saccharine later on.

I love SNW to death. But it's also very heteronormative. They could have benefited from an Adira in their crew. Though they 100% would emotionally wreck her relationship(s) for good drama.

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Stamets & Culbert were constant and the resident couple , I think the discovery executed the concept well to show a gay couple who were mostly stable and happy, they had some though issues after tyler sort of killed Culbert but they worked it through.

Discovery job was to show a gay couple Stamets & Culbert in long lasting relationship and they achieved that. Also more memorable than Adira/Grey. Adira/Grey were just too young and done too on the nose, not comparable to Stamets & Culbert.

I can see Stamets & Culbert in modern family and they will blend fine or just be another gay couple, I could not really see Adira/Gray there, this seem to me how forced Adira/Gray were

Rahul said:

Stamets & Culbert never really disappointed. But IMO sometimes fall into the (very mild) trope of being the "too perfect" gay model couple.
I liked early Stamets more when he was kind of an asshole sometimes, and would also have liked to see some up and downs in their relationship. But that's a DIS problem in general, being way too saccharine later on.

I love SNW to death. But it's also very heteronormative. They could have benefited from an Adira in their crew. Though they 100% would emotionally wreck her relationship(s) for good drama.

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Gotta,say I disagree there. I thought the Stamets/Culber breakup after the resurrection was really well done. That wasn't perfect couple, it was breakup.

Disagree on SNW as well. Chapel goes both ways. Ortegas is ambiguous. Una/Huntress and Ortegas/Adya were a couple in Elysian Kingdom.

Uhura's Song said:

Gotta,say I disagree there. I thought the Stamets/Culber breakup after the resurrection was really well done. That wasn't perfect couple, it was breakup.

Disagree on SNW as well. Chapel goes both ways. Ortegas is ambiguous. Una/Huntress and Ortegas/Adya were a couple in Elysian Kingdom.

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Ortega is ambiguous? or a lesbian? Why does everyone say this about her. I even see many trek youtubers implying this about Ortega since season 1 that she is gay or ambiguous even if it has never been mentioned.

I think this shows the power of western tv media and we know how hollywood plays this game.we know as POC how they like to present white characters in contrast to the non white characters. racist hollywood knows how to present characters as what they want the audience to interpret them as even if they do not come out and flat out say so.

some characters would be presented as sexually describable, others as asexual or non threatening to the other characters others playing into superficial lesbian stereotypes or ambiguous.

I think SNW did a good job playing into this media propaganda, I do not think it helps some POC on the show though.

Chapel is the one that swings both ways it was said in season 1 episode 5, and we know nothing of Ortega love life but people by default just assume she is lesbian or ambiguous simply because she is presented as butch, tom boyish and has a bad short hair cut that does nothing good for the actress bone structure, while chapel has been presented more as feminine, girly, soft and is usually dressed like the model Jess Bush is.

the only issue is that it plays into stereotypes of women and race. the white girl is seen by default as the 100% feminine one that guys (male audience) are meant swoon over, while the latino girl is the one who is just seen in default as the lesbian that is not meant to be coded as desirable to the male audience like the white girl is.

The fact that SNW is playing into this stereotypes is funny since TOS by 60s standard was not even this bad.

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd even call Ortegas butch; she's wearing eyeshadow half the time (then again, so's everyone in the 23rd century).She doesn't look androgynous at all, nor do I think she's intended to, she just has a weird haircut.

The Salt Umpire said:

I was thinking that yesterday but didn't comment. I've chosen not to interact.

Peck IS better than Quinto, his "Khaaan" and subsequent Hulk-rage totally blew away any respect or enjoyment of the role and the movie. I haven't watched any of the K-verse movies since.

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Peck does not even act like a vulcan,lol. something that is way too obvious now that even critics who liked the first 2 seasons can no longer ignore.

I can criticised the last 3rd arc of Into Darkness but when you take into account the rest of the trilogy, it will not be close. At this point it will be miracle if we see Peck show some real growth and maturity as Quinto did in Star Trek Beyond.

The excuses that Peck Spock is still a kid exploring his human side to excuse the ooc of the character is not flying anymore.

Quinto Spock in Into Darkness would have likely have had sex with Carol Marcus after Uhura got angry with him for not caring much about them . Yeah, this is how bad Spock is written in SNW. Quinto Spock is way beyond that.that is why he is better. the facts are there to back it up in the characterization.

also it helps that Kelvin trek still stuck the good traditional aspect of TOS, so it portrays the male characters way better than SNW and that gives Quinto an edge you cannot even begin to imagine.

Peck even fails the basic aspect of vulcans. they have mystery to them. I mean he is supposed to be better than Quinto but Peck remind people less of TOS Spock, while Quinto mostly those. that in itself objectively should hurt the argument that Peck is better, it should even hurt Peck more since Peck is meant to be TOS Spock.

Also Quinto Spock mostly knew how to do humour. In trek lore, you are suppose to laugh with Spock not laugh at Spock. what is one of the major criticism of SNW? That they like to turn spock into a clown and make him goofy as most of the whole show. but dont yet dread the puppet episode until we have seen it.

Starflight said:

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd even call Ortegas butch; she's wearing eyeshadow half the time (then again, so's everyone in the 23rd century).She doesn't look androgynous at all, nor do I think she's intended to, she just has a weird haircut.

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I think it is the styling and I disliked Ortega's styling since season 1. the hair should have grown out also by season 3. the actress looks so different in real life , it is uncanny. In SNW When they were in their normal party or dinner clothes, I hated how Oretaga was styled standing next to chapel in the Children of the Comet episode, she sort of looked like a little boy that is why people say she is ambiguous.

Meanwhile Chapel was styled spectually good and very feminine, I would even argue quite sexy, I mean I could tell from episode 2 that Chapel would be the one getting all the big love story lines based on how she was styled even though in TOS, the male audience did not even see Chapel that way. So um, yeah....we know how hollywood plays the game but they want some of us POC to act dumb about it. I think jennifer lopez who is latina once called hollywood out for her they always like to code latin women as ambiguous or maids next to the white girls.

gabby1701 said:

Peck does not even act like a vulcan,

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He's not one.

gabby1701 said:

Peck does not even act like a vulcan,

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Neither did Leonard Nimoy in The Cage.

Both Peck and Qunito have their strengths. They're both great actors who have risen to a very challenging role. I think that Quinto was more like Nimoy's established Spock but that Peck is more like I would expect a half human / half Vucan who is struggling a bit to behave. Peck's Spock has gone too far for me this season but that's the writing and not Peck himself. I think he was stellar in season 1 and 2.