What You Leave Behind Question

Ianburns252 said:

I do agree with the majority of what you say here but disagree on execution for the war crimes - the UFP shouldn't have the death penalty (think the presence of it in TOS was simply an element of when it was produced - far fewer supported it by the time of TNG and certainly now which seems to be reflected by the fact it isn't mentioned again) by that point in my opinion.

I'm also of the view that the taking of a life as punishment does not correct for having the person having taken a life themselves - although I do not judge anyone for feeling otherwise as I don't know how I'd feel were it someone close to me who was killed - so would prefer something other than that (most likely indefinite incarceration - how can you give a life sentence to a being who would likely outlive generations of people after the fact?).

This is what is meant to make Seven's summary execution of Bejayzal so hard hitting (in my opinion) is that what this person has done to a beloved character is so severe that it has driven them to such lengths - although I caveat that with not knowing what rules the Fenris Rangers operate under and so Seven might have had the right to do so in that particular instance

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In that case, they could have handled over her to the Klingons.
If she could live for centuries, who would know what would happen if she got loose again and started over with her genocide politics.
It would be like having an immortal Hitler released from prison.

Lynx said:

The best would have been if The Dominion had collapsed. The Founders could have been allowed to live on their planet but not allowed to leave it and warning buoys would have surrounded the planet, warning other ships from landing there.

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Lynx said:

She should have been executed for her war crimes (if she wasn't, who knows).

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While I appreciate where you two are coming from, I think that would be the wrong decision in this case because...

kkt said:

Executing the Female Changeling might have reignited the war and had them fighting to the last Jem Hadar.

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This. The Dominion War was the longest and bloodiest war in the past 100 years for the Federation. Being honorable and magnanimous in victory was the best decision the Federation could make. Politics sometimes takes precedence over emotion or an individual's sense of justice.

Executing the Female Changeling and/or confining the Founders to their planet would actually serve to legitimize the Founder's cause and justify their reason for empire building and waging war on the solids. Recall what was said in The Search Part 2:

FEMALE: The Great Link tells us that many years ago our people roamed the stars, searching out other races so we could add to our knowledge of the galaxy. We went in peace, but too often we were met with suspicion, hatred and violence.
ODO: Why?
FEMALE: The Solids feared our metamorphic abilities, so we were beaten, hunted and killed. Finally we arrived here. And here, safe in our isolation, we made our home.

By executing the Female Changeling and/or imprisoning the entire Founder civilization on one planet, you actually validate the Female Changling's accusation that solids hate Changelings and will take extreme measures to restrict Changelings or remove entirely their presence from the galaxy at large. Anyone slightestly sympathetic to the Founders, including those civilizations oppressed or assimilated by the Dominion would come to believe the Founder's cause was just, moral, or upright.

Ending the war with the terms the Allies did was the best outcome because it ultimately preserved peace and stability in 2 quadrants of the galaxy.

Ianburns252 said:

the UFP shouldn't have the death penalty

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It doesn't.

Except for Talos IV, in the 23rd century. And by the 24th, they may have done away with that. The Talosians may have gone extinct by then.

Shawnster said:

While I appreciate where you two are coming from, I think that would be the wrong decision in this case because...



This. The Dominion War was the longest and bloodiest war in the past 100 years for the Federation. Being honorable and magnanimous in victory was the best decision the Federation could make. Politics sometimes takes precedence over emotion or an individual's sense of justice.

Executing the Female Changeling and/or confining the Founders to their planet would actually serve to legitimize the Founder's cause and justify their reason for empire building and waging war on the solids. Recall what was said in The Search Part 2:

FEMALE: The Great Link tells us that many years ago our people roamed the stars, searching out other races so we could add to our knowledge of the galaxy. We went in peace, but too often we were met with suspicion, hatred and violence.
ODO: Why?
FEMALE: The Solids feared our metamorphic abilities, so we were beaten, hunted and killed. Finally we arrived here. And here, safe in our isolation, we made our home.

By executing the Female Changeling and/or imprisoning the entire Founder civilization on one planet, you actually validate the Female Changling's accusation that solids hate Changelings and will take extreme measures to restrict Changelings or remove entirely their presence from the galaxy at large. Anyone slightestly sympathetic to the Founders, including those civilizations oppressed or assimilated by the Dominion would come to believe the Founder's cause was just, moral, or upright.

Ending the war with the terms the Allies did was the best outcome because it ultimately preserved peace and stability in 2 quadrants of the galaxy.

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I have to agree with a lot that you wrote here. maybe it was the best solution.
But i still think that she got away too easy. She was the worst war criminal the Alpha, Beta and Gamma Quadrant have ever had.

Crazy 4 Xmas Lights said:

it could be argued that eliminating the Founders was a justifiable response.

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Genocide is never justifiable.

Ríu ríu chíu said:

It doesn't.

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Talos IV

Tuskin38 said:

Genocide is never justifiable.

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Especially when done with such brutal casualness. Like when the female Founder ordered the Cardassians exterminated.

It would be a very “Section 31” solution - and as seen when people (Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order previously) have tried to wipe them out it doesn’t exactly go well