Did Raffi & Worf arrive in La Sirena and abandon it in space? Did Titan pick them up at Showrunner Prime? What’s harder to do- build Spacedock or move it for no defined reason from Earth to Athan Prime? Surely Captain Shaw only means the DESIGN is “the old Spacedock”? Based on Seven’s statement about Voyager having made her name “farther out” than any of the other relics, Captain Uhura’s USS Leondegrance is not in this museum, (since she made 100 first contacts in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud, much further away than the Delta Quadrant) but per Leondegrance’s placard it was retired in “the Fleet Museum”. Therefore the Leondegrance has been moved recently. Or, I guess, Seven never read that lovingly detailed placard from Picard season 2. Seven never saw Star Trek IV, either, since in that adventure the Bounty’s transporters work while the cloak is on. Sternbach and Cole are Echelon class. There’s a vinculum in Daystrom Station. Ever seen Battlestar Galactica? Maybe don’t link all the ships together. You didn’t even learn the lesson of the Texas class 20 years ago! Captain Shaw the engineer doesn’t know that his ship is linked to the other ships, but Commodore La Forge does. New innovation? Commodore-level knowledge? (Full Transcript of Geordi’s memo to SF Command- Ever seen Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory? DON’T PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.) Very thrilling stuff, and I’m on the edge of my seat every week, partly because I can’t see through the eternally under-lit gloom.
Except they did - Worf managed to get the holoship into orbit of Ba'ku without the So'na ships being any the wiser. Though Memory Alpha seems to think the ship had a cloak.
Perhaps the Ba’ku sensors were particularly bad or the Briar’s Patch made this possible. They managed to locate the ship under the lake with a simple tricorder after all…
My notes from 306. Apologies for stuff already covered: [Aside: WOW!!!] - The episode opens showing that the Echelon, Excelsior II, and Duderstadt classes are all around the same size and habitable volume (and by extension, so are the Sagan and Connie III). While each one doubtless has certain features that establish it as unique (the Duderstadt has an aft-facing sensor, the number of nacelles on the Sagan, the whole <waves hands at the Connie III saucer> THAT...), it nonetheless seems to suggest that in this era Starfleet likes its ships to have around the same sort of general displacement metric. - The Echelons seem to be established as a "mid model" starship design, with known features. Are we saying they're a workhorse class of the fleet, the equivalent of the Mirandas and Excelsiors of their day? - And I'm (very) slowly coming round to the notion that the Excelsior IIs we've seen could be literal refits of the original Excelsior hulls if Starfleet can do the same sort of thing from the Connie I to II or whatever fandom settles on with the SNW Enterprise. The two Excelsior IIs have numbers in the 42000 range which match (most) of the newer Excelsior hulls we run into in the TNG era. My headcanon goes that they're post Utopia Planitia upgrades that are the equivalent of SLEP upgrades in today's US warships, which have been known to result in significant external changes (though not to the visual degree we see here). QED. - The "decoy transponder" is of a new design - it mostly echoes the multispatial probe used on Voyager, which suggests the latter is not a ground-up design but an adaptation of an existing one (or at least its design theory). There are also hints of the Class 1 and 2 probes from the TNG-TM. - So how are we positioning the new uniform variants with the vertical pips? Geordi's seems to be a new flag officer's variant (we saw Admirals in 201 wearing the standard uniform but with Admiral's bars, and another Admiral's variant with a similar pattern). - And these new leather field jackets are starting to filter in, with Riker, Jack and Raffi sporting them for no real reason (especially Jack - whom I'm guessing is still hiding in plain sight per Seven's directive, but in STYLE!). Promo pictures suggest Worf and Geordi will soon trade up as well. Worf also removes his baldric at the end of this episode. [It was a joke amongst the writers for "Generations" that the cast filtered into their new uniforms as they took showers between scenes - and what that meant for Crusher, Troi and Worf.] - Worf is still using his dolphin phaser despite access to the Titan's more modern selection. - Back in "All Good Things" Crusher could not definitively diagnose Irumodic Syndrome in Picard, circa 2370. Here it's not a problem identifying it - props to the advancement of medical science, or Crusher just knowing what to look for these days. - The Ten Forward program seems to be running perpetually now, the equivalent of Voyager's extended use of certain settings like the resort, Sandrine's, etc. They also have access to a bartender who is not Guinan. Also, it's daytime now. Last year, Picard visited the "real" bar when it was daytime, but no daylight was visible through the windows. - Echelon class phaser fire - it's like a phaser bolt, not a constant beam, but it still gets emitted from different places along the strip and with none of the traditional phaser strip firing sequence. Maybe this is the trackable weapons fire Sidney was talking about? - A "Genesis II Device" - not Genesis Device II? Are we implying that it's not the second Genesis DEVICE, but that the device is for a Genesis II effect..? - We are finally gifted a real look at Tribble physiology, assuming it's a standard Tribble. Basically it's like starfish with teeth, claws and possibly extra insectoid legs, and everything that's used for locomotion is basically mouth-related. This goes all the way back to TOS when the props people basically figured that Tribbles basically pulled themselves along the ground with their mouths. Anyway, we know from a Short trek that a Tribble is mostly one muscle, like a scallop, so all the stuff we see under the hood here seems to be all that ISN'T muscle or fur. - So this just might be THE old spacedock, making it some 120 years between its first chronological sighting and now (if not more). How does one move something this big - or this old? Do we break it up into pieces and move them? Was the spacedock capable of interstellar travel in the first place? - And does this support the notion that at some point Starfleet replaced the old mushrooms with scaled-up versions that can support ships the saucer width of the Galaxy class and her peers? - Despite Geordi talking about it, no one else visits the museum while they're there. Did the Titan happen to pop by when they were closed to the public? Or did several runabouts full of snotty kids come by off screen between scenes? - So are the various museum ships equipped with dummy lights or spinny things to make it LOOK like they're functional ships? In general, today's museum pieces are little more than the shells of the originals: the engines are removed (on planes anyway) and sometimes they place plugs or mockups of stuff like engines, cockpits, etc. to give the illusion of a functional craft. As it stands, someone fixed all the damage the Enterprise-A took at Khitomer in the past 110 years, but IMO it's probably just skin deep, and no one replaced the dining room and other internal spaces that were lost. - I'm guessing they can in fact board the ships, as both Riker and Troi recall visiting the NX-01 in the museum and touring that Enterprise's bridge; and Picard muses about a Connie there as well ("Relics"). Still, there's probably ample room in the rest of the museum for full-sized mockups of ALL those ships' bridges for kids to crawl over and break, or for people to take holo-selfies or whatever. - Still, those rings around the museum ships seem to be kinda pointless. I'm a runner, and I've literally run around the three accessible sides of the the much smaller USS Midway museum in San Diego - it's not a short stroll. Are there really fast moving walkways on those rings? Would people be able to beam from one point to the next? - The Titan drops their cloak to beam the away team back, but this was not a problem with the HMS Bounty in Star Trek IV. I'm guessing that this was a compromise they had to make to get the cloak to work in the first place on a ship it wasn't designed for, and to make it work so that the Cole and Sternbach couldn't find her with sensors more than a century more advanced. - While we don't know the weight, the Bounty's cloak is smaller than the one stolen from the Rotarran on DS9. It's also visible in the first place. - Riker is inhibited with a Transport inhibitor dart! And possibly a tranquilizer of some kind? He doubles over in more pain than he does when getting worked over by some big muscly Changelings later on. Are we implying that Changelings are wimps? - While it's hardly a new thing, they are working on the new Data in Sickbay, not Engineering. They more often used Engineering in the past, notably giving Data a whole closet to himself in "Insurrection". Of course it's probably because they don't have an Engineering set for the Titan - or because this golem body has some biological components to it? Mark
You're right, but the principal is essentially the same. If one of the arguments against the Feds using cloaks (to the point where even research on them was banned) is that the good guys shouldn't be "sneaky," then one could argue they shouldn't use holographic technology the same way either.
While you can use them for viewing, I think the primary purpose is for station keeping, so the ships don't have to use their own power to stay in formation. Just have some light duty tractor emitters keeping them in the hoop.
I can dig that. I'm mostly wondering about the practicality of those rings as observation decks if it means an extended march around the perimeter. If they're anything like 21st century Earth museums, they're filled with tourists, kids, and old vets looking to relive the glory days - and none of these groups likes to walk or run very far if they can help it. They're not Edosian! The walkways on those rings are not small, either. They must be at least two levels high, though they are probably just one large volume all the way around. If I were to get married in this future, any of these ships would make a heck of a background, and those rings would have room for several receptions at once (accounting for people stealing snacks as they passed through one to get to another, of course). To be fair though the museum IS in planetary orbit, and with any extended power loss the various exhibits would spin off at different rates depending on their mass as their orbits decay. Best anchor them with something... Or put them in a Lagrange point where that would be very much reduced. We don't see Mrs. Laforge, but it's vaguely suggested that she was on the planet surface (though a combadge SHOULD be able to handle that), so is that where the rest of the family lives? Is the museum a commuting job? Mark
While not discounting your very valid comment, why wouldn't they live on the museum? It's the old Spacedock, it's humongous, a self contained metroplex in and of itself.
No reason whatsoever, other than wanting to have a real sky overhead if they felt like it. Spacedock is well over a century old and might have that smell associated with it. OTOH, if Metroplex had a working transformation cog, I'd be less worried if the Decepticons would attack. *** Oh yeah: The Defiant in the museum, if it's the one that DS9 finished with in 2376, basically confirms that someone painted it with the NX-74205 registration at SOME point. We know that no one on the production team changed the number of the CG model during the DS9 episodes when they replaced her with the Sao Paulo, and both stock and new footage of the ship in the finale arc all had the old registry. So I wouldn't be surprised if the blue glass memorial plaque for the ship mentioned something about it. Now, it's not unusual for a flight museum to paint an example of a plane in a livery it never actually had when in active service, or for a squadron it was never a part of. For example, on the USS Midway there are a couple planes painted in the livery of one squadron on one side, and an unrelated squadron on the other, just to show what they looked like (and no one would ever see the planes from both sides at once). Here they PROBABLY wouldn't do that to such prestigious ships unless there was no other choice. BUT in what was likely a production error, all the ships Seven was tapping between had incongruous NCC numbers: Akira-class: NCC 23542 Intrepid-class (which she tapped on for Voyager): NCC 77543 Constitution-class (which she taps on for the Enterprise-A, and whose silhouette is a Connie I): NCC 75442 And so on. Furthermore, there's no rule about keeping all the swappable pieces of one ship on another. On the 1990s novel "Crossover",, TNG-scotty steals the TOS era USS Yorktown (which in this timeline had been restored to its TOS appearance regardless of what it looked like when facing the whalesong probe or whether or not it got renamed to Enterprise-A) from its moorings at Starbase 178, where it was a museum ship. Notably, the old bridge module from the TOS Enterprise was being used in place of the Yorktown's, and Scotty recognized it instantly. I fully expect the ships in the museum to be filled with glass cabinets full of period relics, and holographic recreations of the crew giving their ships a tour (hey, if Zephram Cochrane's likeness is entertaining kids at a theme park in Bozeman...). Mark
that has never been a reason in universe. Also, if they use that tech for scientific reasons, such as studying a primitive culture, they’re not really being sneaky.
Dawww, you guys... [Related: mad props to @Unicron for the Battletech lore stuff on the last page. As a franchise fan since the late 80s, I vibed hard.] Even more: - Watching the Ready Room, it's notable that Laforge's ready room was filmed against one wall of the Titan's obs lounge. - The Genesis II Device is apparently a fairly faithful reproduction of the Genesis (I?) Device. Alert Dylan Hunt! Alert Phil Collins! - In the wide shot of the museum, has anyone clocked that the Miranda-class ship in the distance seems to be a Saratoga type variant? I could be wrong, but I don't seem to see a rollbar, and there is a tiny blob of pixels where the side-mounted sensor whatsits should be. Mark
Yeah, I was wondering that too. The clear intent was that it was the same station. But yes, I agree that it's illogical to move an old station to some other planet when it would have been far easier to just build another one. The plaque info for the Leondegrance (like the design itself) is pure nonsense that can easily be discarded as we didn't see it up close. How would a ship built in the 2280's be able to travel to another galaxy and back in like no time? With all due respect to the great Mr. Sternbach, I really wish they wouldn't use the names of Trek production personnel for ships, stations, etc. I find that very annoying and takes me right out of the scene. Yeah, super sloppy writing there.
Not if you put a small fleet of ships around it (say 20), projecting both subspace and a warp field around it (and themselves), then moving it with tractor beams at Warp speed to the new location - that's actually a lot simpler than building a new station... and not that difficult to do. That is certainly inconsistent, but TOS had a knack for messing with Warp speeds... at one point, the fastest the 1701 could go was about 1000 Ly's per day if I'm not mistaken. The Magellanic clouds are 160 000 Ly's away. At the speeds from TOS, you can get there in about 6 months. But then you're presented with another conundrum: 'if those warp speeds did exist back in the day, why weren't they ever used by the rest of the fleet'? And by the time of ST:V, the Enterprise supposedly went from Earth to the center of the galaxy in just a few days, implying that SF increased those Warp speeds from 1000 Ly's per day, to about 10 000 LY's per day (which definitely seems plausible increase for the passage of time and technological advancement - but in-universe wise, it makes 0 sense because the rest of the fleet never used those speeds - and VOY by that analogy would have returned home in a week without any technological advancements taking place in the interim - that's why I suggested it would have made more sense for VOY to be thrown 273,750,000 Ly's from its last known location (aka, hundreds of millions of ly's) make it back home in 75 years at a speed of 10 000 Ly's per day.
Also, y'know, stable wormhole, unstable wormhole, transwarp anomaly, coaxial cable, graviton ellipse, Cytherian probe, Trelane / Q / Traveler / insert god-like name here... Stuff like that. Mark
I just assumed they dismantled it and rebuilt it elsewhere rather than attempting to move it in one go. Since Spacedock is mostly hollow it probably packs down quite well, and unless all Spacedocks and Starbases are entirely built from local materials they're going to have methods for shipping station components across interstellar distances already. On the other hand, maybe Spacedock has a warp drive of its very own, or could be fitted with one? We've seen Federation Headquarters move itself at warp in the 32nd century, and O'Brien was able to move Deep Space Nine across interplanetary distances with just a few hours of tinkering (admittedly only at sublight speeds, but just think what he'd have been able to do if given a few weeks or months). Even if it only maxes out at a relatively pedestrian warp 5 or 6 it'd still do for those rare occasions these enormous structures need to relocate.
Spacedock has always seemed like a bunch of stacked modules anyway (same with the office complex, Jupiter station, and their derivatives). The REAL question is if it's stacked like a hamburger, meaning that you shouldn't take all the layers apart again lest you come off looking weird to everyone around you. OTOH, there's a really nice SOTL calendar entry which showed the whole thing being built in one go (with the Enterprise-nil in the other spacedock type, featured in the foreground). A Miranda-class starship is seen tractoring a huge section of the upper "fruiting body", to give a sense of scale - or perhaps how this could be done to move the station decades later? Mark
We saw Spacedock being built in the DSC season 1 finale, as well. It's a few decades earlier than that picture assumed, but other than that, it looks a lot like Wilde's image. IIRC, the "Legacy" had Spacedock dating back to the ENT era, but it was just the middle, smaller mushroom, and it expanded outward over the next hundred and thirty years.