Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy General Discussion Thread

Well, creative consultants can't dictate content, but there's nothing precluding the writing staff from taking a suggestion from anybody if they want to, whether they're on staff or not. Heck, Sulu only got Hikaru canonized as his first name because Peter David suggested it while he happened to be visiting the set of ST VI that day.

So you're right to say it's not likely, but it's an overstatement to say it's completely out of the question.

 

I got an email today from Paramount+ that says the show is returning October 27th.

 

They announced at on Star Trek Day.

 

Twice we've seen Gwyn bow in a very formal manner to The Diviner. I wonder if this means to say something about the society of the Vau N'akat, or if it was merely part of the ploy of The Diviner to impose his authority on Gwyn.

Normally, bowing like that is done only in a context of caste systems/noble hierarchies (like you would expect to see at the crowning of a King, for example) or in a religious context. Even very harsh dictators (who do not othewise claim to be divine/religious figures or to be highranking nobles), to my knowledge do not require this kind of demonstrative bowing and scraping.

We also see that Gwyn does it when no one of the "unwanted" is around, so it is not for a show toward them. Drednok, on the other hand, does not do anything of the sort and seems almost like an equal to The Diviner.

So, is this solely imposed as another tool to keep Gwyn from questioning him (as literally a "Divine" figure) or is The Diviner supposed to be a highranking noble in some kind of caste system on Solus or a religious figure of note?

 

Star Trek Universe panel is at 4PM eastern

It will be streamed free, but watching the recording after it ends is not free.

https://www.thepopverse.com/watch-p...il-and-more-at-nyccs-star-trek-universe-panel

 

I would love to see a Lower Decks/Prodigy crossover, I think the Prodigy group is very suited to be a foil for Mariner especially. Looking forward to the Strange New Worlds crossover, but I hope they don't forget the two animated shows could share characters, too.

 

Crossing with DSC is unlikely, since they are far in the future (at this time) and classified beyond a certain point. SNW already has a crossover (and it would involve time travel, so doing that kind of thing twice seems difficult/repetitive). Lower Decks and Prodigy are only a few years apart, so they could get a slightly older Mariner (and co) into Prodigy (with their animation and general style, so without adult humor though it could be a comedic episode). Vice-versa would be more difficult, I think, also because Lower Decks is a few years behind and the impact on the more serialised Prodigy may be a problem.

If Prodigy can bring in Okona, then Mariner could work as well. She loves to get new recruits to Starfleet (under order from Ransom, anyway) and helping alien cultures (just freed from megalomaniac AI's or other malevolent overlords) is kinda her thing. Plus, the whole "we do what we want" atmosphere on the Protostar is her ballgame, too.

The time of Enterprise could indeed be interesting especially for Jankom, but here too we have already gotten characters from another show "watching a historical document". How to bring them in? I think the creator of Lower Decks has said he is looking to integrate actors/characters from Enterprise, somehow.

 

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-pr...tribution&utm_source=SR-TW&utm_campaign=SR-TW
Seems like Ella Purnell and Brett Gray are game for a potential crossover with Lower Decks.

 

Janklom Pog watching a holoprogram on how Tellar Prime was a founding member of the Federation in the 22nd century and also became an ally of humans, Vulcans and even Andorians before that could be a way to integrate ENT characters with PRO, especially if Archer narrates the program in the capacity of a teacher of historical information.

"I was there when these four species agreed to become partners in confronting the Romulan threat. I was in the hall when the Tellarite delegate signed the Federation Charter. This is a noble people, even if they'll argue that point with you to no end."

 

Too little info on Vau'ka'Nat culture as a whole to say for certain.

I would imagine that Drednok is on a different footing than Gwyn because he's been with the Diviner for a much longer period of time, and after having Gwyn, the Diviner noticed that she was able to associate (and perhaps even empathise with the 'unwanted') - so he may have kept her at an arms length because of this - or its possible this was part of his culture.

The Diviner was also part of a faction which opposed the Federation and was seemingly self-centric and righteous. It may have also had a somewhat different culture from the other part of Solum that was more open and accepting of alien life when it came to raising kids.
He also blamed the Federation for what happened on Solum - which is intricately stupid.

But we also have to realize that because of his 'mission' he was a driven individual... and he created a base of operations in the past on Tars Lamora relentlessly searching for the Protostar in an attempt to destroy the Federation.
Maybe he just didn't want to be 'distracted' and otherwise, his culture doesn't have same kind of attitude towards raising kids... but it could entirely be circumstantial - but given they were the only 2 Vau'Ka'Nat remaining (which evidently isn't accurate due to the SF ensign who was said to be a Vau'Ka'Nat spy on behalf of the show makers), the relationship he exhibited towards Gwyn does seem more like a 'I'm your ruler, give me the respect I deserve - progeny or not'.
Maybe he's also a type of individual who has delusions of grandeur... which could have overrode his sense of affection towards his ownly child.

Like I said, too little data to tell.

However, I would imagine that UFP would have also felt responsible (and guilty) for what happened because even though Solum had FTL technology, their society as a whole might not have been ready for the realities of dealing with other sentient life in the galaxy on equal grounds (but I imagine the result may have been similar even if the Vau'Ka'Nat ventured out into space anyway and started colonizing nearby planets never encountering UFP - they would have had to deal with this anyway, and a same thing might have happened either way, only they could have encountered a less friendly organisation or species, and their FC could have went even worse for them).

I'm a bit torn though to say Solum wasn't ready for dealing with realities of alien life... because, a good portion of the planet was in fact seemingly ready (opposition could easily exist in every society, but what you'd usually do in that case is that isolationists would in fact ISOLATE for the most part - although sometimes, they go through more extreme lengths to get their way).

Also, the Diviner seemed somewhat inconsistent with his story... namely, he said that FC caused a split on Solum... and then he blamed the Federation for NOT interfering in the internal affairs of Solum.

This is something that's less logical to me... why would the isolationists expect or want the UFP to intervene though?
If they were fundamentally unhappy about the prospect of other alien life in the galaxy and didn't want to associate with them, why would you want their assistance?

Seemed to me he was simply looking for a scapefgoat and wasn't entirely too rational.

 

The prodigy game apparently has hints to future things in the season

https://twitter.com/GoodAaron/status/1580950826834542593?t=r8AawqXUJj4zhcTNPBJCwg&s=19

 

If the Diviner's behaviour (wrt Gwyn and the formalities between them) is not at all normal for the Vau N'akat society (or societies) - and as you state we don't have that info - then I would guess that the aim of it was to impress Gwyn. She may have been the only being on Tars Lamora who actually bought into the whole "our Diviner" thing, as Drednok knew better and for the slaves it's just a fancy self-styled title for their jailor. Main aim would be to stop Gwyn from questioning his orders and aims (who is she to doubt "Our Diviner"?).

There are certainly other Vau N'akat remaining, not only the rumoured hidden one but (as of yet undiscovered, by Starfleet) Solum is out there, as well (quite possibly with a much younger Diviner on it). Plus possibly others who are part of "The Order", as it was stated that others had also been searching for the Protostar before the Diviner decided he needed offspring to continue the work.

Regarding the Federation, I suppose the Diviner blames Starfleet both for the first contact (though as you say, they would come into contact with aliens sooner or later, and better the Federation than the Borg) and for later pulling out after (in his eyes) the damage was done, instead of helping to clean up the mess they themselves created. At least, that's what he would think, I guess.

 

See my post in the thread for the game: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/prodigy-supernova-game.312486/#post-14294159

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a great deal many Vau'Ka'Nat remained alive after Solum's conflict.
We already know other Vau'ka'Nav who share the Diviner's view are out there, so him and Gwyn aren't the only ones. Maybe for all intents and purposes, the Diviner and Gwyn (for all he knew) were the only ones remaining.

We still don't know what entirely happened with Chakotay and his crew... let alone if the Diviner came to the past alone or with help (and it stands to reason that if he had a crew of Vau'Ka'Nat who shared his views, then others who sided with the Federation also still exist).

I don't think we can have a temporal inversion here though that fixes what happened (aka, Solum's conflict) because that would mean the events leading to Prodigy in the first place wouldn't happen - because the Diviner would have no reason to travel to the past.

Unless they found a way to preseve what's happening now while also allowing Solum to have a different future - which could only happen if you think of it in a way that the Diviner came from a future of an alternate reality... so by integrating himself into the Prime timeline universe past that we know and see, changing anything in this universe/present wouldn't have an effect on his original Solum universe future... but it would change the future of Solum in the Prime timeline - but this doesn't EXACTLY track because as we saw, Janeway was already looking for Chakotay and the Protostar - but that could also mean that the Diviner just jumped from his future/universe to Prime timeline, and then during his encounter with the Protostar, something affected the temporal mechanics and the anomaly threw both the Protostar and the Diviner ship another 25 odd years into the past, but of the Prime timeline universe (so, Diviner originated from alternate universe future, but the second jump to the past borught him to the Prime timeline past just before events of TNG).

Except for the Kevin alternate timeline, I don't think we had any other time travel stories like this in Trek because most have portrayed Time Travel in Trek as a single timeline that usually got changed/altered - but then again, the future from which Admiral Janeway came from in 'Endgame' could be a situation like the Kelvin - because the future was altered when Admiral Janeway destroyed the Borg Unimatrix along with the Queen herself which also obliterated the Borg TW network and brought VOY home faster - but somehow, the future tech that VOY crew integrated into their own systems (which originated from Admiral Janeway future) remained intact when VOY was approaching Earth - meaning that future still exists as it did.

They also mentioned that the timeline is 'wonky'... so this could be what they were referring to.

 

I think it is possible to fix what happened with Solum, in any case the Diviner has already changed the timeline solely with the presence of Rev-12 and the creation of the Tars Lamora mining/prison colony (which in turn has affected parts of the Delta quadrants at least). So if Starfleet for some reason wanted to preserve future events regarding Solum, they would have to "fix" Tars Lamora before it started to influence the outside world.

Besides the examples you named, I think we must also consider those episodes where the Enterprise or other ship is known to be destroyed in a set time. The crew doesn't give up in such a case either, and works to avoid this particular version of their future.

For a kids-friendly show, I think they would want to avoid an IMO rather nihilist and negative ending that would say Solum is doomed and nothing can be done. Or worse, that it shouldn't even be tried.

It is very possible that the Diviner comes from an alternate timeline that continues to exist, Star Trek has never been consistent in its temporal mechanics and every showrunner or writer will use what works best for his/her story.

I wonder if we'll hear more from Chakotay in the coming episodes. They're keeping any news of this under wraps for the time being, but then it may be in the last 5 episodes and those are possibly not even finished yet, as far as the animation goes. Still, it seems that Admiral Janeway has to learn something about Chakotay before season 1 closes.

 

That doesn't track. Aside from "Time Squared," Star Trek has never used the nonsensical time-travel trope that erasing a potential future timeline erases anything that came back from it. Generally, people or things that come back from an erased or prevented timeline continue to exist in the past they traveled to -- notably "Yesterday's Enterprise" Tasha Yar, mother of Sela, and the O'Brien from the near-future timeline in "Visionary." Also, in "Timeless," future Harry's message to his younger self survives in the present after that future has been averted. If information can survive, matter can survive, because quantum mechanically, they're the same thing.

After all, such temporal "refugees" are no longer part of the timeline that gets erased, so there's no reason they'd get erased along with it, any more than someone who got off a boat would drown if it subsequently sank. We've seen other instances of time travelers, or those within the influence of temporal fields, surviving when their own timelines disappear, like the landing party in "City on the Edge of Forever" or the E-E crew in First Contact. Time travelers are causally outside their own timelines and thus causally insulated from whatever happens to their timelines.

 

I don't think the Diviner changed anything... I think his presence in the past was always a part of the timeline... its just the Galaxy is pretty huge and most of the stuff that can be happening at any given time simultaneously we don't see because we are focused on the heroes we see.

Voyager crew never encountered Tars Lamora on their way back from the DQ after all... and the Federation at large doesn't seem to be aware of Tars Lamora in the first place.

So basically, going to the past by itself wouldn't necessarily change it... and in many cases it doesn't because it was supposed to happen anyway.

The Diviner operated at the border of Beta and Delta Quadrants... so well away from the Federation.

Yes, but those were temporal paradoxes... aka, time loops where the ship and crew were stuck repeating the same thing over and over.

The events in Prodigy seem to be more like a predestination paradox.

Prodigy seems to be a more serious take on Trek (similar to live action) but in animated form.
There's a possibility that something might be attempted to save Solum... but its also possible that Janeway and the crew of the Dauntless would have objections to that due to the Temporal Prime Directive - or she would side with the kids and see if a problematic outcome could be avoided.

But again, unless the Diviner didn't jump from an alternate universe future... how would Gwyn and events that lead to the whole show even happen?

Taht's another thing... I don't think we're going to get a temporal reset... but 'something' could be done to explain and preserve the events as they already occured. And the way I see that happening is that the method of time travel used by the Diviner could be said that it brought him from an alternate universe future to our Prime timeline universe and then subsequent jump to just before TNG (while Chakotay was wrestling back control of the Protostar) limited the time jump to the Prime timeline past.

That's the only explanation I can see that would work to preserve existing series of events. So, similar thing that occurred with the creation of the Kelvin timeline. The Prime timeline continues unaffected because the Narada jumped to the past of an alternate universe.

It probably has to do with the METHOD of time travel. Aka, most methods seen thus far limited changes to the existing prime timeline... however, some few other methods of time travel seem to push a ship and the crew into an alternate universe past... it seems that this is the method that occurred by pure chance when the Narada was sucked into its own black hole... and a same thing occurred when Admiral Janeway travelled from the future to bring VOY back home earlier - and the way everyone were talking about in that future seemed like it would continue to exist - meaning, that future was NOT part of the Prime Timeline, but without going to the past, the Prime Timeline future would have turned out the same or very similar to that one.

I certainly hope so. It would be great to see Chakotay as captain and to see him re-assume command of the Protostar and guide these kids.
But I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a short leave of absence if he and his crew were stuck in the past and in hiding for the last 20 odd years.

 

Yes, but this doesn't happen always.
We have seen in TNG that when Ent-D was trapped in that vortex and encountered another shuttle from the Enterprise and Picard, they both vanished when a different choice was made.

Temporal refugees, matter and info don't always survive. Tasha coming from an alternate timeline could be an alternate universe intersecting with the prime timeline via weird temporal mechanics (due to the method the rift was made) allowing an alternate universe future in which the Klingons were winning the war to superseed the prime timeline for a brief period, but it was still a separate timeline and maybe because Tasha went through the rift on the Enterprise-C, she was insulated from the changes, or the premise/possibility her timeline always existed.

At any rate, different methods of time travel produced different results.
In Year of hell, nothing could survive the Krenim temporal weapon erasure unless the object or people were protected by temporal shielding technology... in fact, when Janeway rammed VOY into the Krenim temporal ship, the core imploded and released a massive temporal wave which reset the timeline - and the year of hell then never happened.
For this to occur, the temporal shielding had to be brought down something on which Janeway insisted betting that the whole mess of YoH would never happen.

Also, when Kes experienced possible futures in reverse and VOY impending Year of hell, the information about the Chroniton torpedo was never used by the crew to construct temporal shielding and activate it in case they meet the Krenim... suggesting that info never survived (oddly enough).
So, for Kes, YoH happened, she experienced it (originally), got infected, and ended up traveling backwards through time as a result.
Multiple alternate timelines intersecting... and Kes was also developing her mental abilities so that could have played a part.


However, putting that aside, Prodigy to me seems more like its a 'serious take' on Trek via 3d animation... akin to live action series (but possibly more consistent)... and possibly things that make sense... not just 'random' things that aren't necessarily explained.
So, its possible that when we DO get an explanation, maybe we will see just how Solum's possible future is altered, and how these series of events continue to exist - possibly an intervention from the 29th century just for the viewers?

 

I don't think that's relevant for the question of the timeline. Solum is probably well away from the Federation, too, which is why it wasn't discovered until "ludicrous speed" Starships became available post-Voyager. If a change in Tars Lamora is not relevant because it's well outside the Federation, then so is a change in Solum not a problem.

The Diviner changed a number of things:
1. Boarded the Protostar and got it and its crew missing - big change right there
2. Became a major exporter of Chimerium, due to his activities in Tars Lamora, with influence reaching all the way to Kazon space (but also doing business with a Ferengi, on the other side)
3. Abducted a number of persons from different species, including a surprising amount of species that ought to be part of the Federation (which is still not explained - why did the Diviner go to great lengths to get slaves whose origins lay in what is now Federation territory?)

That the Federation isn't even aware of any of that (other than they know the Protostar went missing), shows that those changes aren't a big deal for the timeline. But neither would Solum be, IMO.

In any case, the Diviner is part of the timeline and Gwyn exists. Not being fatalistic about Solum and the Vau N'akat isn't going to change that.

Edit: also note that the Diviner does not believe his method of time travel (whatever that is) works like you propose. After all, if he was succesful in wiping out Starfleet, Solum would never get a Federation first contact and the civil war wouldn't happen as it did, thus no reason for him to go back (but if him going back would suddenly be erased, then things would be back to happening as they originally did, so he could never have success in this way). If he succeeds, he would supposedly stop to exist and erase his own success. If he doesn't succeed, going back is pointless. So, he at least believes there is an option that leads to him managing to drastically change events in the past and to see the fruits of that.