MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

And then everyone else did too. So either Staments told everyone, Adira had that conversation half a dozen times or they made a Spacebook post about it.

 

The ship is mostly space for the elevator, gossip gets around fast.

 

Adira is non-binary. End of story. A fictional character written to be non-binary leaves this a debate without an argument. No harm is made by labeling Adira as non-binary. The character doesn't suffer nor does the series if they are listed as such on a Trek Wiki and just leaves the impression that Memory-Alpha is bigoted or at least run by cowardly people who don't want people to hassle and argue with them.

At this point ignoring the gender status of a fictional character out of a sense of being offended and prejudice is childish and stupid and does nothing to either help the website or draw traffic there and hurts those in real life who are non-binary and want to see representation in their favorite franchise. To paraphrase James T. Kirk in TOS: "Leave your prejudices outside your website. They have no room on an inclusive Wiki page."

 

The problem is that everyone hates Nazis and white supremacists, so they are easy to spot and ignore, but "assholes" are far more insidious, so they need to be called out by the people you call "incels" and "red pillers" (why are these terms okay, but SJW isn't?) before they whip up a cancel culture mob and cost someone their job. Championing the rights of minorities is a good thing, but it is possible to be too woke. In the words of transgender writer Sophia Narwitz: There is no single entity more significantly harmful to the widespread acceptance of trans people than the overly woke crowd. Put me in a room with one woke person and nine actual bigots, and I guarantee you, if that single woke person has access to Twitter, then they’re doing more widespread harm to people like me than whatever insults the other nine may levy my way.

Back on topic, I've asked the admins on Memory Alpha to unlock the page now that the discussion appears to be resolved.

 

Incels and redpillers identify themselves as such, they came up with it for themselves. It's not a slur, it just rightfully has a bad reputation. What are assholes doing that's so insidious? Name someone who has actually lost a job and why exactly did "cancel culture" go after them. I need examples that can be proven, not vague stories.

Okay that tells me all I need to know about what you're reading and listening to. I'm going to recommend Contrapoints, she's on YouTube.

 

Using Incels (involuntary celibates) as a slur is just as bad as SJW. Etymologically, it refers to people that have trouble forming relationships, for any number of reasons (good, bad, just plain unlucky in a small town, social anxiety, disabled), yet, for some reason, certain people find it alright to marginalize this group like they're high school bullies picking on people who can't get a date to the prom.

It's the same problem with SJW, people assume "incel" means one thing when it refers to a broad variety of things. There are involuntary celibates who are social justice warriors. There are involuntary celibate women (and NBs, probably many more proportionally). There are involuntary celibates who go on to lead fulfilling lives, even if they never managed to have romantic relationships.

I have argued against using it as a slur in the past, but people just brush it off and continue as if it isn't one. All because some people who identify as involuntary celibate, whether that is true or not, use the term during their hate-filled rants.

 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-At-Skidmore-curiosity-might-get-you-15553968.php

https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/profe...g-chinese-expression-that-sounds-like-n-word/

https://nypost.com/2020/07/03/boeing-communications-boss-niel-golightly-resigns-over-article/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ros...y-muslim-brotherhood-planet/story?id=55504982

https://reason.com/2020/06/08/james-bennet-new-york-times-opinion-woke-tom-cotton/

https://www.thewrap.com/claudia-eller-exits-variety/

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/09/8726...signs-after-racially-offensive-photo-surfaces

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...m-tom-cotton-new-york-times-james-bennet.html



There are many more incidents where "assholes" have tried to cancel people but have not succeeded. Like Gina Carano who was attacked on twitter for jokingly posting beep/bop/boop when asked to post her preferred pronouns on twitter. Or Rosario Dawson who was attacked over unproven transphobia allegations which were eventually withdrawn by the accuser.

This "Contrapoints" person you recommended appears to only have a small number of videos and I can't tell what they're about because they don't have a proper description. And most of them are too long. What are the videos about and which one should I watch?

 

Maybe they only had to have that conversation on-screen once for the audience to get it

and just now, I had to correct "she" to "they" before posting. Non binary gender identity is a bit of a new thing to me and old habits die hard.

edit: also, the way I understand it, the term "SJW" originated among the left wing to mean the kind of well-meaning person who approaches ever social interaction as a matter of life and death, and never learned to pick their battles. These days it just seems to mean "person with vaguely left leaning opinions and I don't like it sir !!!"

 

The general mood of the thread made my assume you were deliberately mis-gendering to make some kind of aggressive point.

I am sorry for making that assumption, and thank you for correcting your post and for actually caring enough to make that change.

As for terms like SJW, Incels, Woke, and RedPills(not come across this term before, maybe an American thing?) I don't think it is helpful to bundle any group of people together and assuming they all think alike. Standing up and amplifying the voices of minority groups who are having a tougher path through life and in our current society - does not need to be aggressive or war like (the Warrior in SJW). Those on the other side of such arguments, don't have to stifle conversation, and do not have to be encumbered or affected by giving justice and fairness to such groups.

Allowing gay people to get married, does not mean you too have to marry someone of the same gender.

Allowing trans people to live their life in the physical form that makes them comfortable, does not mean you have to have your genitals removed, or your breasts removed.

Groups under the term TERFs sometimes act from a place of genuine concern. Women have been a gender that has had their freedom and rights curtailed over the years, and so have fought politically, and in society, for fair and equal representation for Women, as compared to Men.

But being inclusive of all Women, doesn't have to set back those equalities and rights. Spreading fairness, acceptance, justice, and equality - should be a societal benefit for all, and not take things away from others.

 

Unfortunately if you're used to operating from a position of privilege, equality starts to look like oppression.

 

You'll always have that 5-10% of the population that are assholes, regardless of what political, sex, creed, etc.
I do my best to judge each individual, not any grouping. Labeling as a group means your labeling based on the worst member of that group, where the rest of the group may be just fine people.
Judge the individual when able to, if there racist, bigot, homophobe.. THEY themselves are that, not the whole group (usually.. there are exceptions).
This is why I dispise all the sectioning off of people, we're all human.. were all different.. Deal with it.

As for the Topic, They identify as They, and is identified in character as They, so if there is a "Gender" entry, it should reflect. its not hurting anybody.
I always go by the thing of, if your not hurting me, or someone else, do whatever you want.

 

Do you mean insult?

 

because Fuck Nazis!

 

Yes, in fact there used to be an enlightened, and very feminist, support community of them before their web domain expired around 10 years ago, or so. The current groups that identify under the term now started as an offshoot from this who couldn't handle the tough moderation that went on in order to combat the toxic masculinity ingrained in many of the male members.

It's now taken on a loaded meaning, synonymous with toxic masculinity, when the term has, in fact, been around much longer and was used by a much broader section of society than now.

 

Yeah, if you go to any of the self-identified Incel subreddits these days, the people who identify themselves as Incels are almost uniformly misogynistic -- to a really startling extent, in point of fact.

 

Your examples of people behaving in a manner that resulted in consequences. You aren’t entitled to a job and they can fire you for any reason. That’s how the world works. As for cancel culture, it largely doesn’t exist other than online criticism. Most of the celebrity examples are completely unaffected by any complaint regardless of whether you consider it serious or not.

As for Contrapoints it’s debates on various topics done as a dialogue between two opposing sides with context given throughout. They are long, but they have higher production value than most of what you see on YouTube and she makes them pretty entertaining because she’s trying to reach both sides of an issue equally. I would check out the Jordan Peterson one and the Incel one since it seems to be closer to content you mention.

 

It’s men blaming women for not immediately having sex with them and they have to be the most attractive women. But they can’t actually try to talk to women or do anything to attract them because they lack some trait they consider manly. It’s a lot of self pity, depression and people confirming the worst fears and anxieties of each other. It’s not only a toxic place for outsiders, but for the posters themselves. It’s a self imposed Hell.

This will explain it better than I can.

 

Update: They finally gave in and changed them to Non-Binary:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Adira_Tal

 

No "finally" about it... it's been that way for 3 days.

 

Good and proper.
And kudos to them for getting on the right side of this.

Look instead of trying your best to be all proper and correct and trying your best not to offend,wouldn’t it just be easier to try your best just to be a decent human being?