The Punisher-- Marvel/Netflix

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  2. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    It's gonna take one hell of an imagination to come up with as convincing a plot and motivation... But then, Dexter did what he did for 8 seasons, so....
     
  3. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    I'm rather indifferent to the news. I'm more interested in seeing if Iron Fist can salvage its mess than I am about a second season of The Punisher.

    Not a ringing endorsement since the second half of that show was pure crap and some fans would argue only the first season is truly great. ;)
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I'm just hoping that whatever gets Frank back into the punishing business, it doesn't involve the deaths of either Curtis or any of Micro's family.
     
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  5. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Admittedly it went past it's best by date, but it was a slow fade IMO. YMMV.
     
  6. Beagleman

    Beagleman Commodore Commodore

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    First 2 seasons of Dexter where great to good, after that... well. Give Frank a good motivation that doesn't ring cheap, that's all I ask. Hopefully not a re-hash of a close personal death, more him feeling the need to go on a mission that requires his particular set of skills for the greater good or... something along those lines.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think anything they do to get Frank back into the vengeance game is going to feel contrived and undermine his resolution in season 1. I'd rather they didn't do a second season. Unless they do something completely unexpected and totally reinvent what Frank Castle does and how his character develops. Which would require a massive departure from the comics.
     
  8. jbny67

    jbny67 Captain Captain

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    Depending on how it's done, That's not necessarily a bad thing.
     
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  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, believe me, there's nothing I'd love more than a massive departure from the Punisher comics. The less this show is like the comics, the better, as far as I'm concerned. But people who actually like the comics character would be more upset if the show took him in too different a direction, and I assume it's therefore unlikely that the showrunners would go that way, for risk of alienating the core Marvel fanbase.
     
  10. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    Season 1 was nothing like the comics, so instead of complaining like you have been since page 1 of this thread maybe you should actually watch season 2 before going on and on and on about nothing.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, it was a significant departure, and that was why it worked so well. But it still retained some element of the idea of Frank Castle as someone dedicated to killing those he deems as enemies. At this point, anything that turns him back into a lethal vengeance-seeker would feel like a step backward for his character. But if they advance him forward in some way that doesn't involve him being on a relentless mission to kill people, then he wouldn't even be the Punisher anymore. As I said, I personally would love that, but people who tune into the show expecting and wanting the Punisher would not. And the show is called The Punisher, not Frank Castle, so that kind of puts a constraint on where the writers are likely to go.
     
  12. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    But you’re wrong because the writers did exactly what you said in your first sentence. So please, give the constant bashing a rest or simply stop opening this thread. The shit is really getting old
     
  13. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I still need to finish season 1 (episode 10 really turned me off of the show, even though I enjoyed episodes 1-9, and I haven't gone back to it yet), but why would they retire Frank after one season? I don't care what kind of "closure" he gets, its silly to think that Punisher was going to be gone after one season. In the comics he's kept going years after anything connected with his family's death was tied up, its not like that is the only motivation the character has. Heck, a really easy motivation is "Frank kills to make sure other innocent people don't end up like his family". Kind of like Batman's motivation, but with guns. That kind of thing doesn't have an end date, and it would make sense for him.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't understand why you think I'm engaged in "constant bashing," when I explicitly said that I liked what the show did. Heck, in this particular matter, I'm not even talking about my opinions. I'm talking about the opinions of people who like the Punisher as a comics character -- a group that, as I've said, does not include me -- and how the producers' awareness of those opinions will probably keep them from changing the character too radically.

    Somehow you seem to have missed that what I'm doing is praising the first season for taking Frank Castle in a smarter, more thoughtful direction than they could have. Ending him up in therapy as he tries to find his way back from the darkness is probably the wisest, most satisfying thing they could have done with the character. That's why it's hard to imagine what they could do in season 2 that wouldn't cheapen or undermine that ending, and why several people here have expressed the opinion that ending the show right here would be preferable to seeing that happen. Now, maybe the producers can surprise us and find a way to make a second season work without undermining the successes of the first. I hope they can. But it won't be easy.
     
  15. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    The vast majority of people watching the Netflix Marvel shows have never read any of the comics. Using the excuse of comic fans steering the storyline or being disappointed is a non starter... otherwise people would be screaming that Luke Cage sucked because he didn’t have an Afro and headband the whole series. The only thing anyone expects from the Punisher is a skull shirt and dead bad guys, which we will definitely get
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's axiomatic. A successful comic these days has an audience in the tens of thousands, while a successful TV show has an audience in the tens of millions. But the paradox is that comics fans have disproportionate influence as tastemakers because they're vocal online. Bad buzz can hurt a TV show or movie, so most producers of comics adaptations try to avoid departing too radically from the source in ways that might upset the core fanbase (although there is the occasional exception that tests the rule, like the insane Gotham). Plus, of course, there's all the consolidation these days between comics and screen productions, with the same "chief creative officers" in charge of both at once. Franchises like the MCU and the Arrowverse are well-liked, in part, because they feel faithful to the essence of the comics and characters they're based on. So it's not unreasonable to expect an MCU show to avoid departing too radically from its source material.

    Besides -- is there a plausible alternative? Let's be analytical here, think this through. If a second season of The Punisher is not about Frank Castle hunting down villains and killing them, then what could it be about instead? Is there a way to tell a story in a series called The Punisher that isn't about that?

    What's unusual about season 1, what made it interesting and what makes the idea of a season 2 difficult to parse, is that it was, in a sense, the opposite of the standard origin story. It was essentially a de-origin story, a tale of how Frank Castle ended his mission of vengeance and reached a place in his life where he was ready to move on. That's an impressive and effective thing to do with Castle as a character, but surely you can see how it makes a continuation challenging. Where can they go from there without sinking into the lazy sequel route of undoing his growth? I hope they find a good answer to that question.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  17. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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  18. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    It occurred to me that there might be a kind of Bourne type story line here... no matter how thin the plot, the action could be glorious, and the acting chops are present.
     
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  19. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    I’m in the middle of watching Season One of “THE PUNISHER”. Yeah, I'm pretty late to the Marvel Netflix franchise. Don’t get me wrong. I’m enjoying the series, but like “DAREDEVIL” and “JESSICA JONES” before it, the season seems to be slowing down to a crawl midway. Why? Why are some of the writers of the Marvel Netflix series incapable of overcoming this?
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not a writer for any of the shows, so I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess, I would say it could potentially come from trying to stretch the story out so it fits the preset number of episode.