Romulan-Vulcan Reunifcation - Discuss
- Thread starter roseake
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That was my first thought, too. Romulus's days are numbered . . . even if Spock doesn't know that.
Could it be that the idea of reunification is more symbolic? That it's not actually about subordinating the Romulans to Vulcan cultural norms, but rather is about reminding the two cultures of their common heritage as a way of building a bond of trust that might help heal their ancient rift, and in the process help normalize relations between the Romulan Empire and the Federation?
What I find interesting about the Vulcan Civil War trilogy on Enterprise was that it implied at the end that the Romulans were actually seeking reunification first. V'Las and Major Talok were evidently working to try to turn Vulcan into a more aggressive, Romulan-style society and thereby bridge their cultural divide in the Romulans' favor. So if Reunification is a Romulan idea to begin with, maybe casting the idea of improved relations in those terms is a way of making it sound appealing to the Romulans.
RtT established that there was a massive war half a million years ago that brought down Arretian civilization. I linked this in Watching the Clock to the war that brought down Talosian civilization around the same time, suggesting there was a sweeping interstellar war between telepathic civilizations. That conflict could've destroyed whole civilizations and left only a few scattered survivors who regressed to primitivism; it could even have wiped the survivors' minds and memories through telepathic attacks.
Or maybe they didn't colonize other worlds per se, but seeded them with humanoid life of Arretian stock that started out at a primal stage and was allowed to evolve independently with no knowledge of its origins. Seems weird, but no weirder than what the Progenitors did 4 billion years earlier.
Or something else. There are always possibilities.
What I find interesting about the Vulcan Civil War trilogy on Enterprise was that it implied at the end that the Romulans were actually seeking reunification first. V'Las and Major Talok were evidently working to try to turn Vulcan into a more aggressive, Romulan-style society and thereby bridge their cultural divide in the Romulans' favor. So if Reunification is a Romulan idea to begin with, maybe casting the idea of improved relations in those terms is a way of making it sound appealing to the Romulans.
RtT established that there was a massive war half a million years ago that brought down Arretian civilization. I linked this in Watching the Clock to the war that brought down Talosian civilization around the same time, suggesting there was a sweeping interstellar war between telepathic civilizations. That conflict could've destroyed whole civilizations and left only a few scattered survivors who regressed to primitivism; it could even have wiped the survivors' minds and memories through telepathic attacks.
Or maybe they didn't colonize other worlds per se, but seeded them with humanoid life of Arretian stock that started out at a primal stage and was allowed to evolve independently with no knowledge of its origins. Seems weird, but no weirder than what the Progenitors did 4 billion years earlier.
Or something else. There are always possibilities.
I appreciate this idea. I just wish the whole thing had been fleshed out better on screen.
Almost a futile thread. When Romulus and Remus are destroyed, if the Unification movement is not effectively dead there are higher priorities for the civilizations.
For the sake of discussion, I'd like to add STO's take on the subject.
In 2409, the Romulan Republic is founded by the leader of the Reunification/Unification movement, D'Tan, to heal the scars of the Hobus aftermath and divorce from the ways of Empress Sela and heir Tal Shiar minions.*
*(Makes me chuckle when I play ST:Armada, where Sela is part of the military and wary of the Tal Shiar.)
Upon the (re-)colonization of New Romulus, Proconsul D'Tan says the Romulans can't reunify with their "Vulcan brothers" (not "cousins") when the Romulans come as beggars from a dying empire. Instead, the Romulan Republic is established to bring out the best in Romulan society and do away with treachery and deception.
Another important step for D'Tan is to make peace with the Remans, and to form a single Romulan/Reman society ("the Romulan and Reman people" as opposed to "peoples").
In the democratic RR, Romulans and Remans are equal. The crew of the flagship is racially diverse, including Romulans, Remans, a liberated Borg Romulan and a Deferi.
The goal is to reunify with the Vulcans as equals, with no culture subservient to each other. The new homeworld of New Romulus is a key, as it was briefly inhabited by the proto-Romulan fleet two millennia ago.
It is not stated what the reunification would be like except permanent peace is to be established.
(All the info from above comes from the New Romulus videos and history data chips, both in-game sources.)
As a real-world example, I'd like to add European integration. It may coalesce into a, um, federation in the future but leaving the cultural diversity intact while being politically united. It would not revive ancient hegemonies but draw from the traditions of ancient empires like the Romans', HRE and Francia.
I like the idea of seeing unification as something symbolic, the way Christopher described it. Maybe it's another word for special relationship.
In 2409, the Romulan Republic is founded by the leader of the Reunification/Unification movement, D'Tan, to heal the scars of the Hobus aftermath and divorce from the ways of Empress Sela and heir Tal Shiar minions.*
*(Makes me chuckle when I play ST:Armada, where Sela is part of the military and wary of the Tal Shiar.)
Upon the (re-)colonization of New Romulus, Proconsul D'Tan says the Romulans can't reunify with their "Vulcan brothers" (not "cousins") when the Romulans come as beggars from a dying empire. Instead, the Romulan Republic is established to bring out the best in Romulan society and do away with treachery and deception.
Another important step for D'Tan is to make peace with the Remans, and to form a single Romulan/Reman society ("the Romulan and Reman people" as opposed to "peoples").
In the democratic RR, Romulans and Remans are equal. The crew of the flagship is racially diverse, including Romulans, Remans, a liberated Borg Romulan and a Deferi.
The goal is to reunify with the Vulcans as equals, with no culture subservient to each other. The new homeworld of New Romulus is a key, as it was briefly inhabited by the proto-Romulan fleet two millennia ago.
It is not stated what the reunification would be like except permanent peace is to be established.
(All the info from above comes from the New Romulus videos and history data chips, both in-game sources.)
As a real-world example, I'd like to add European integration. It may coalesce into a, um, federation in the future but leaving the cultural diversity intact while being politically united. It would not revive ancient hegemonies but draw from the traditions of ancient empires like the Romans', HRE and Francia.
I like the idea of seeing unification as something symbolic, the way Christopher described it. Maybe it's another word for special relationship.
I think one thing to consider is that maybe for Spock, reunifying Vulcans and Romulans is a political representation of how his personal philosophy changed after his encounter with V'Ger -- no longer repressing all emotions, understanding that logic is the beginning but not the end of wisdom, yet not becoming a V'tosh kat'ur. He seeks to bring Vulcan discipline to the Romulans, and to bring Romulan passion to the Vulcans.
Obviously, Spock doesn't consider the particular political manifestations of this unification to be as important as the cultural manifestations. I doubt he wants the Confederacy of Vulcan to secede from the Federation, but he seems okay with it if the resultant Vulcan-Romulan polity is still a liberal democracy that lives in peace with the UFP. More to the point, I doubt Spock is concerned about such particulars at this juncture -- he clearly understands that this is a long-term, centuries-encompassing political movement that, if it ever succeeds, won't succeed until long after he's gone. He's not in it to get it to happen now, he's in it because he believes it will be better for both Vulcan and Romulan civilizations in the long term.
And he's probably also thinking it's better for the Federation in the long term, even if it costs them Vulcan. Likely he's thinking that the benefits to the Federation of a peaceful, even allied, Vulcan-Romulan polity replacing the hostile Romulan Star Empire will outweigh the costs of Vulcan's secession -- if it comes to Vulcan secession in the first place.
The questions raised by the possibility of Vulcan-Romulan reunification within the Federation are similar to those raised by the possibility of the Klingon Empire joining the Federation. Ultimately, I retain my tendency to think the Federation probably has an upper population limit and would require any such polity to break up into small polities to join as separate Federation Members -- but I also don't think that would realistically be a problem if this new set of Vulcan-Romulan worlds are committed to peace and liberal democracy. Vulcan and Romulus will have been reunified culturally, even if they're spread across 12 different Federation Member States.
Obviously, Spock doesn't consider the particular political manifestations of this unification to be as important as the cultural manifestations. I doubt he wants the Confederacy of Vulcan to secede from the Federation, but he seems okay with it if the resultant Vulcan-Romulan polity is still a liberal democracy that lives in peace with the UFP. More to the point, I doubt Spock is concerned about such particulars at this juncture -- he clearly understands that this is a long-term, centuries-encompassing political movement that, if it ever succeeds, won't succeed until long after he's gone. He's not in it to get it to happen now, he's in it because he believes it will be better for both Vulcan and Romulan civilizations in the long term.
And he's probably also thinking it's better for the Federation in the long term, even if it costs them Vulcan. Likely he's thinking that the benefits to the Federation of a peaceful, even allied, Vulcan-Romulan polity replacing the hostile Romulan Star Empire will outweigh the costs of Vulcan's secession -- if it comes to Vulcan secession in the first place.
The questions raised by the possibility of Vulcan-Romulan reunification within the Federation are similar to those raised by the possibility of the Klingon Empire joining the Federation. Ultimately, I retain my tendency to think the Federation probably has an upper population limit and would require any such polity to break up into small polities to join as separate Federation Members -- but I also don't think that would realistically be a problem if this new set of Vulcan-Romulan worlds are committed to peace and liberal democracy. Vulcan and Romulus will have been reunified culturally, even if they're spread across 12 different Federation Member States.
I like that part of Star Trek Online. I almost wish that the game would introduce Watraii.
Bah. Stupid damned nuTrek. Wiped out my two favorite worlds, one in each reality.
A pox on the writers' houses.
Another strike again the JJ movies.
Don't the IDW miniseries Spock: Reflections and Vulcan's Heart both explore what led Spock to seek Reunification?
Even if the reasons behind reunification might not make a lot of sense, we have gotten some really good stories out of it IMO. I've always liked the Unification two parter, and Rough Beasts of Empire is a great book.
Even if the reasons behind reunification might not make a lot of sense, we have gotten some really good stories out of it IMO. I've always liked the Unification two parter, and Rough Beasts of Empire is a great book.
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