Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?
- Thread starter asl
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Spiner was great in the Augments trilogy.
Part of the problem is that it's basically a TNG episode, all the action takes place onboard the Ent-D, now that doesn't mean using the 24th Century as a framing device can't work. But you could have gone forward a couple of decades to 2411 and used the celebrations of the UFP marking it's 250th Anniversary looking back to an event, you could even have older versions of one or more of the TNG characters. Simply put the way they framed the episode was bad not the idea itself.
As for Archer's speach, you could at least of given us the first line of it.
Security must have had the day off, sure I can understand them wanting the scene between Trip and Archer, but why not have had Reed with Archer, they might easily be discussing what they do next.
I could go on, but thou hast to get ready for work.
As for Archer's speach, you could at least of given us the first line of it.
Security must have had the day off, sure I can understand them wanting the scene between Trip and Archer, but why not have had Reed with Archer, they might easily be discussing what they do next.
I could go on, but thou hast to get ready for work.
I don't hate it, and it would have made for an interesting TNG holodeck episode
but that's my main complaint, it's basically just a TNG holodeck episode
I think having Archer's speech take place earlier in the episode and hearing/seeing the the whole thing and then having the ending shot be a new class of ship leaving space doc (maybe the refit NX class) with the "space the final frontier" monologue and have the camera zoom from outside into the bridge and show a multi-species bridge crew all wearing the same uniform would have been a much better send off
but that's my main complaint, it's basically just a TNG holodeck episode
I think having Archer's speech take place earlier in the episode and hearing/seeing the the whole thing and then having the ending shot be a new class of ship leaving space doc (maybe the refit NX class) with the "space the final frontier" monologue and have the camera zoom from outside into the bridge and show a multi-species bridge crew all wearing the same uniform would have been a much better send off
Any official explanation (on blu ray extras, perhaps?) why the speech was omitted? I really enjoyed the finale but I would have liked to hear the speech.
My guess is that it would have sounded like the one Archer gave in 'Terra Prime'.
I've only seen the episode once, which is enough for me right now. Last year, I'd started a review thread after ordering the complete series and finally getting to see the last two seasons for the first time. I burned out after averaging a review of the first two seasons every couple of weeks. Eventually I need to fire it up again, or start a new thread to finish it off. When I watch TATV again, I'll be watching it 3-5 times before the review, so I'm not looking forward to that.
I remember back in 2005 a lot of people reviewing the episode and asking, with TATV being a TNG holodeck episode, if that meant that the whole series was just a holodeck recreation.
I was just reading a review on the episode (http://www.jammersreviews.com/st-ent/s4/voyages.php) and how the reviewer mentions that in the episode you have private conversations between crewmembers ' that couldn't be a part of any record, unless they were reproduced from published memoirs or extrapolated from someone's subjective interpretation.'
So really TATV is like the play Blood Relations by Sharon Pollock (in the play Lizzie Borden has one lawyer, while in real life she had a team of 3 lawyers, but for the play all three lawyers were condensed into 1 person) where it is based on a "historical" moment in Federation history, but most of it is fictional in the Trek universe.
Quills wasn't with the studio but did have a connection with some of the writers who along with other staffers and some of the actors, were none too pleased with TaTV.
It is one solid stinking bowel movement at the end of a glorious Trek life.
I, too, enjoy THESE ARE THE VOYAGES! Seeing Riker and Troi again was heart-warming, to say the least. The only negative aspects are Trip & T'Pol's relationship outcome, and Trip's death, of course. Otherwise, I consider this episode to be entertaining popcorn fare ...
RIKER (ENT): I think I'm ready to talk to Captain Picard. I should have done it a long time ago. ...
RIKER (TNG): I've said all I can. I am under direct orders from Admiral Pressman not to discuss this, sir.
Bob
^The choice of Pegasus did much to constrain the set up of TATV and create inconsistencies. Changing to Chains of Command--having been relieved of his post, mulling over a mutiny against Jellico--makes more sense. That does not solve the episode's principle problem: Trip's sacrifice lacked both meaning and spectacle. TATV would still fail to be a satisfying finale.
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Would have been tolerable, possibly even fine, to do such an episode mid season. Any season. But the finale of ENT? No.
I dont hate it, and since I prefer TNG it was a nice idea. But it just doesnt work as a story (the holodeck was a bad idea to connect both crews) and because of that the episode feels more like a clip show. The actual episode didnt live up to the idea. Its just a mediocre story.
Another possibility would be to depict Riker as Captain of the Titan, mulling over a current problem on one of the Titan holodecks.
This would nicely account for the appearances of both Riker and Troi, they were simply older than when we last saw them. Nemesis uniforms might still fit. Could have shown the Titan in a fly by, would have been great to see it.
Edit: actually, scratch all that. Bad Thoughts already covered everything I said in the below quote. Well said! 
You know, I really can't help feeling that Braga & Berman were trying to have a bet each way and 'play it safe': they wanted to do something that could be seen as a finale, but which they could also cheat their way out of somehow if the show (by some miracle) had managed to actually get itself belatedly picked up for a fifth season. So, you know, Tucker dies here, but it's a flash-forward episode, so if they ever got to make more episodes taking place before these events then he doesn't really die (at least not yet). And even then, if they wanted to change their mind later and not really kill him after all, then they could always have just turned around and said to the fans, "Riker, Troi, holodeck program, not the real deal, duh!"
Basically, there's absolutely nothing about TATV which isn't a possible cop-out on some level.
You know, I really can't help feeling that Braga & Berman were trying to have a bet each way and 'play it safe': they wanted to do something that could be seen as a finale, but which they could also cheat their way out of somehow if the show (by some miracle) had managed to actually get itself belatedly picked up for a fifth season. So, you know, Tucker dies here, but it's a flash-forward episode, so if they ever got to make more episodes taking place before these events then he doesn't really die (at least not yet). And even then, if they wanted to change their mind later and not really kill him after all, then they could always have just turned around and said to the fans, "Riker, Troi, holodeck program, not the real deal, duh!"
Basically, there's absolutely nothing about TATV which isn't a possible cop-out on some level.
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I wish they had at least found a better reason for running this program than the one they came up with. Seriously? Riker needed advice on whether to tell the truth to his Captain? How lame is that?
It's because we have all spent all of VOY, DS9 and ENT wondering and wringing our hands over the Pegasus. That is why they decided to be kind to us.
If they had to do an episode after this, it'd have to begin in the alternate timeline all those characters appeared to be from!
Riker and Troi leave the holodeck, return to the bridge and we find a slightly different take on Next Generation episode "The Pegasus", involving a rewritten Romulan crisis, Picard, Adm. Pressman etc. Only then do we find it's all a "butterfly effect" built up over the years, that goes as far back as the Temporal Cold War manipulation during Enterprise's era.
Better make it two or three parter if you've got a storyline involving ENT and TNG characters to do. Then at by the end, reset everything so the series goes forward from 2155 again. Somehow tie Future Guy's identity into the situation, and by the time we reach the signing of the Federation charter, the war which led up to it, has more of an impact on the crew and probably a different fate for Trip.
Riker and Troi leave the holodeck, return to the bridge and we find a slightly different take on Next Generation episode "The Pegasus", involving a rewritten Romulan crisis, Picard, Adm. Pressman etc. Only then do we find it's all a "butterfly effect" built up over the years, that goes as far back as the Temporal Cold War manipulation during Enterprise's era.
Better make it two or three parter if you've got a storyline involving ENT and TNG characters to do. Then at by the end, reset everything so the series goes forward from 2155 again. Somehow tie Future Guy's identity into the situation, and by the time we reach the signing of the Federation charter, the war which led up to it, has more of an impact on the crew and probably a different fate for Trip.
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