Is it canon that God is at the center of the galaxy? Also...

[T'Girl]

Gene Roddenberry was an atheist.

That would depend on what part of Roddenberry's life you're referring to.

When he was a young man during the Second World War he was a Southern Baptist.

On August 6, 1969, Majel Barrett married Gene Roddenberry in Japan, in a traditional Buddhist-Shinto ceremony. At that time, Roddenberry in multiple interviews professed to being a Buddhist. There no indication that Roddenberry was an atheist during the creation, or production run of TOS.

According to Susan Sackett , who was Gene Roddenberry's personal executive assistant for seventeen years, during the late seventies Roddenberry believed in "The All" the universe's creative force, or God.. (Inside Trek: My Secret Life with Star Trek Creator Gene Roddenberry)

In the novelization of ST: TMP Roddenberry made this Spock's religion. Vulcans have the ability to perceive a oneness with The All

Roddenberry's belief in atheism would appear to have been during the last years of his life.

He went out of his way to have anti-religious themes in his stories.

There are positive Christian - monotheist themed episodes during TOS. None of them were written by Roddenberry as the principal writer though.

Of the small number of stories primarily written by Roddenberry which do you feel possessed a "anti-religious theme?"

 

[Poltargyst]

Gene Roddenberry was an atheist.

That would depend on what part of Roddenberry's life you're referring to.

When he was a young man during the Second World War he was a Southern Baptist.

On August 6, 1969, Majel Barrett married Gene Roddenberry in Japan, in a traditional Buddhist-Shinto ceremony. At that time, Roddenberry in multiple interviews professed to being a Buddhist. There no indication that Roddenberry was an atheist during the creation, or production run of TOS.

According to Susan Sackett , who was Gene Roddenberry's personal executive assistant for seventeen years, during the late seventies Roddenberry believed in "The All" the universe's creative force, or God.. (Inside Trek: My Secret Life with Star Trek Creator Gene Roddenberry)

In the novelization of ST: TMP Roddenberry made this Spock's religion. Vulcans have the ability to perceive a oneness with The All

Roddenberry's belief in atheism would appear to have been during the last years of his life.

He went out of his way to have anti-religious themes in his stories.

There are positive Christian - monotheist themed episodes during TOS. None of them were written by Roddenberry as the principal writer though.

Of the small number of stories primarily written by Roddenberry which do you feel possessed a "anti-religious theme?"

I'd have to research which stories GR wrote, but I'm not sure he would have had to directly write them. He was still overseeing the thing. For that matter even after his death, Star Trek was still his vision that other writers could continue to adhere to.

There certainly have been a number of stories in various series (and Star Trek 5) where people are worshipping an entity they think is God only to find out it's just an alien. I don't see stories where people are worshipping God and it turns out to be God. This seems like a pretty consisent message of "there is no God."

There's the Next Generation story about the people who were waiting for their deity to return, and then the alien woman claims to be that deity so they have a trial about it. Picard goes on at length about what did this deity do for you, and it turned out the answer was nothing, these people did it all themselves. Sounds like a pretty clear message of "God isn't doing anything for you, do it yourself", and it really sounds like a shot at the Second Coming. Substitue Jesus for those peoples' deity.

And what of GR's The God Thing, a story in which belief in God is made out to be some kind of strange cultlike behavior, not to mention another example of God turning out to be an alien.

Seems pretty clear to me what Star Trek's message is regarding the existance of God. Now I'm not an atheist, but I don't mind atheists, and I don't mind that atheism is Star Trek's POV, but I see the message pretty clearly.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There certainly have been a number of stories in various series (and Star Trek 5) where people are worshipping an entity they think is God only to find out it's just an alien. I don't see stories where people are worshipping God and it turns out to be God. This seems like a pretty consisent message of "there is no God."

No, the message is just "This alien in the film isn't God." It makes no statement whatsoever about the existence of the REAL God.

There's the Next Generation story about the people who were waiting for their deity to return, and then the alien woman claims to be that deity so they have a trial about it. Picard goes on at length about what did this deity do for you, and it turned out the answer was nothing, these people did it all themselves. Sounds like a pretty clear message of "God isn't doing anything for you, do it yourself", and it really sounds like a shot at the Second Coming.

See above. The episode is not an attack on God or those who worship Him. Neither is "Who Watches The Watchers?". In both of those cases, it's an attack on thinking someone is God when it's obviously not true, but that's not a slight against actual faith.

And what of GR's The God Thing, a story in which belief in God is made out to be some kind of strange cultlike behavior, not to mention another example of God turning out to be an alien.

And again! Just because some alien says it's God doesn't mean it really was. Anybody - anything - can say that they're God. It doesn't mean they actually are.

None of these episodes or films have ever tried to prove anything against God's existence (indeed, that's not possible). In all cases, they expose 'wannabes' - those who claim to be God, or are mistaken for Him, but who are not really God. And also, in all cases, no Christian should ever be offended by any of these things. No one in Trek has ever said that I shouldn't believe in God, and I've never gotten that message from it.

My Christian faith is entirely compatible with an enjoyment of Trek, and I've never thought otherwise.

 

[Poltargyst]

http://theomegasector.com/index.php...ok-at-gene-roddenberrys-unfilmed-trek-script/

Roddenberry stated. "It was too controversial. It talked about concepts like, 'Who is God?' [In it] the Enterprise meets God in space; God is a life form, and I wanted to suggest that there may have been, at one time in the human beginning, an alien entity that early man believed was God, and kept those legends. But I also wanted to suggest that it might have been as much the Devil as it was God. After all, what kind of god would throw humans out of Paradise for eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. One of the Vulcans on board, in a very logical way, says, 'If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He's got so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a supreme being.' Not surprisingly, that didn't sent [sic] the Paramount executives off crying with glee. But I think good science fiction, historically, has been used that way--to question everything."

"With that," says Gene, "we begin pondering the notion that perhaps mankind has finally evolved to the point where it's outgrown its need for gods, competent to account for its own behavior without the religiously imposed concepts of fear, guilt or divine intervention."

Can it be any clearer?

 

[T'Girl]

He went out of his way to have anti-religious themes in his stories.

"With that," says Gene, "we begin pondering the notion that perhaps mankind has finally evolved to the point where it's outgrown its need for gods, competent to account for its own behavior without the religiously imposed concepts of fear, guilt or divine intervention."

Can it be any clearer?

It important to remember that while Roddenberry was the producer of the show, he was never Star Trek's sole force. He had considerable help from others in bring the show into existence, TOS was really as much Gene Coon's creation as it was Roddenberry's.

Star Trek scripts came from a variety of writers, and there were different directors too. They all contributed to what Star Trek came to be.

In TOS Kirk indicates that he is a monotheist, the ship has a chapel, we subsequently find out that Vulcans have shrines, monasteries, priests, priestess and temples.

The last scene in Bread and Circuses has a lot to say about Star Trek's (but perhaps not Roddenberry's) position on religion.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The last scene in Bread and Circuses has a lot to say about Star Trek's (but perhaps not Roddenberry's) position on religion.

I was always under the impression that Uhura's announcements on "The Son of God" was actually just a nod to Martin Luthor King, who was - apparently - a fan of the show. One who saw Uhura as being an inspiration.

 

[Jedi_Master]

And again! Just because some alien says it's God doesn't mean it really was. Anybody - anything - can say that they're God. It doesn't mean they actually are.

None of these episodes or films have ever tried to prove anything against God's existence (indeed, that's not possible). In all cases, they expose 'wannabes' - those who claim to be God, or are mistaken for Him, but who are not really God. And also, in all cases, no Christian should ever be offended by any of these things. No one in Trek has ever said that I shouldn't believe in God, and I've never gotten that message from it.

My Christian faith is entirely compatible with an enjoyment of Trek, and I've never thought otherwise.

Excellent post, and I agree with you.

 

[T'Girl]

I was always under the impression that Uhura's announcements on "The Son of God" was actually just a nod to Martin Luthor King, who was - apparently - a fan of the show. One who saw Uhura as being an inspiration.

Maybe it was something that Nichelle Nichols talked to MLK about in one of their daily face to face conversations?

The lines of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Uhura in the final scene came from the script, I've never seen anything to indicate that the script writer knew anything about the supposed short note that MLK sent Nichols.

 

[shapeshifter]

It's canon that there's a planet at the centre of the galaxy, surrounded by the "great barrier" and which held a malevolent floating head monster thing. It wasn't actually meant to be "God"

And the Enterprise got from Earth to there in no time at all.

Correct, it tricked Sybok into bringing it a ship by impersonating God.

I believe that thing was an imprisoned member of the Cytherian species, which was later discovered in TNG The Nth Degree.

 

[Last Redshirt]

I don't see how it's hard to see in Star Trek V that the alien that calls itself God...is not God. It's not some hamfisted atheistic message. It's saying that an alien is pretending to be God, and it's obviously not God.

I mean, come on. It's God. He can do anything. So why would he need to trick Sybok and a bunch of others and steal the Enterprise just to get a starship? Couldn't He just, you know, make one up? And, really, what does God need with a starship? Kirk literally asks that, and the being responds by having a hissy fit. Q didn't need a starship, and he's got godlike powers.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The lines of Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Uhura in the final scene came from the script, I've never seen anything to indicate that the script writer knew anything about the supposed short note that MLK sent Nichols.

BUT............but............Gene Roddenberry at least co-wrote this episode and he had to have known about what MLK had to say - surely!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

http://theomegasector.com/index.php...ok-at-gene-roddenberrys-unfilmed-trek-script/

Roddenberry stated. "It was too controversial. It talked about concepts like, 'Who is God?' [In it] the Enterprise meets God in space; God is a life form, and I wanted to suggest that there may have been, at one time in the human beginning, an alien entity that early man believed was God, and kept those legends. But I also wanted to suggest that it might have been as much the Devil as it was God. After all, what kind of god would throw humans out of Paradise for eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. One of the Vulcans on board, in a very logical way, says, 'If this is your God, he's not very impressive. He's got so many psychological problems; he's so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a supreme being.' Not surprisingly, that didn't sent [sic] the Paramount executives off crying with glee. But I think good science fiction, historically, has been used that way--to question everything."

"With that," says Gene, "we begin pondering the notion that perhaps mankind has finally evolved to the point where it's outgrown its need for gods, competent to account for its own behavior without the religiously imposed concepts of fear, guilt or divine intervention."

Can it be any clearer?

While I admit I'm not happy to hear someone talk like that about God, in the end, it's their own business. The only thing that was ever our concern is the Trek that Gene helped create. And however Gene might have sounded when he said those things, it's clear that the finished shows and films weren't as insulting as that. So I'm prepared to call it even, really.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, what Roddenberry believed personally didn't in the end dictate what Star Trek had to say on the subject. He even admitted that himself. Star Trek was full of false gods, but it always stopped short of denying the existence of God, instead often expressing acceptance for a multiplicity of beliefs on the subject.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

The worldview of a creator doesn't always completely influence the worldview inherent in their work.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yeah, what Roddenberry believed personally didn't in the end dictate what Star Trek had to say on the subject. He even admitted that himself. Star Trek was full of false gods, but it always stopped short of denying the existence of God, instead often expressing acceptance for a multiplicity of beliefs on the subject.

Agreed.

Whatever Gene might have thought, he would never begrudge the rest of us the right to believe as we wish. I'm not aware of even the most radical atheist who would ever want that. (Not that, even if they did, they would ever have the ability to carry it out, but there we are. ) Not even people like Hitchens, Dawkins, Minchin, etc. would ever think that, I suspect.

Their lack of faith is not a threat to my actual faith.

 

[T'Girl]

BUT............but............Gene Roddenberry at least co-wrote this episode and he had to have known about what MLK had to say - surely!

Roddenberry was famous for rewriting a couple of lines in a script to get a writing credit and receive the resulting paycheck. He is listed as one of the writers, but it's unclear how much of the script was his.

 

[Greg Cox]

Star Trek is hundreds of episodes written, directed, and produced by dozens if not hundreds of people over the course of decades. Trying to find one consistent attitude toward religion in all of that is probably a futile endeavor. And people can surely find whatever they're looking for if they look hard enough.

Personally, I'm inclined to ignore the few stray references to God and religion in TOS, and wonder if maybe they were added at the network's insistence. (That line in "Adonais" about the one God being enough kinda stands out like a sore thumb.) But I don't think there was ever an Official Party Line regarding God or gods . . ..

 

[Armored Saint]

I interpret that line like a way of saying "We turned the page about you many centuries ago." I was already an atheist when I was 8-year-old, so I wasn't really please to see the God and Eden references in TFF when I was somewhere between 11 and 14. It's not bothering me anyore.

I don't think you can see Star Trek as anti-religious considering Vulcan logic is closer to religion than philosophy. In Return of the Archons and The Apple, Kirk's issue is with the idea of seeing people enslaved by a computer. It's more against the articial setting than the fact they were worshipping an entity. I think religion is treated in general as a cultural fact observed by starfleet officers.

Picard's words in Who Watches the Watchers sound anti-religious, but some season laters he'll praise the former Cardassian spiritual life.