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3 Qs about Q.

I don't think Q ever acted with an intent to cause suffering or harm.
If we're at the zoo, and I throw you into the loin enclosure and you're killed, can I stand smugly to the side and say "oh, it was the loins that killed him."

When Q threw the Enterprise into the path of the Borg, it was Q who killed several Enterprise crewmembers.

:)

That's a bit of a grey area, I think...
 
I once attended a conference where John de Lancie was the guest star. He was very cordial, sophisticated and intelligent. At that time, he announced that he and Leonard Nimoy were working on a couple of projects. What became of them?

There are two Spock vs Q audiotapes.
 
...Q reaffirms americas ideas about its own exceptionalism, through the lens of human exceptionalism...

...sorry...what was that about America you said in your quote above?...could you please clarify?...

The idea of american exceptionalism is in a lot of ST, only its translated into human exceptionalism. "We are special and different". We arent the fastest, we arent the strongest, or even the smartest, but (imagine one of kirks speecheus) there...is...something...unique....about....us...as...a...people....

Dude was all about the human exceptionalism, which was an extension of american exceptionalism in space to an extent. The federation was basically Americas idealised image of itself leading the world, and the aliens...

Kirk was often known to win the day with his "humanity" while spock served as contrast with his cold dispassionate logic.

If you go forward to TNG, Q is fascinated with these humans, and their uniqueness.

Fact is, who is to say other species arent more charming, funnier, wittier, better gamblers, and more courageous than the humans? This ever redeeming human charm, and this special and different exceptionalism is Americas idealised image of itself writ large.

Im not necessarily knocking it, but its a factor in ST.

The idea of american exceptionalism is in a lot of ST, only its translated into human exceptionalism. .
4 of the 5 hero captains are Americans (present day borders), a fair number of the other Human officers too.

:)

Thank you for clarifying...I never thought about it like that...thank you for giving me a different perspective, and, I agree!...

From "Contact"...


"...You're capable of such beautiful dreams and such horrible nightmares..."
 
I don't think Q ever acted with an intent to cause suffering or harm.
If we're at the zoo, and I throw you into the loin enclosure and you're killed, can I stand smugly to the side and say "oh, it was the loins that killed him."

When Q threw the Enterprise into the path of the Borg, it was Q who killed several Enterprise crewmembers.

:)

While Q threw the Enterprise into the path of the Borg I always had the impression that the Borg were coming for the Federation anyway. Q just accelerated the meeting.

By him introducing the Federation to the Borg sooner gave the Federation some ability to be prepared for them. Not that they did very well. I have also always felt this was all part of Q's plan.

But that is just made up by me to make the Q mesh into the overall story line better.
 
...sorry...what was that about America you said in your quote above?...could you please clarify?...

The idea of american exceptionalism is in a lot of ST, only its translated into human exceptionalism. "We are special and different". We arent the fastest, we arent the strongest, or even the smartest, but (imagine one of kirks speecheus) there...is...something...unique....about....us...as...a...people....

Dude was all about the human exceptionalism, which was an extension of american exceptionalism in space to an extent. The federation was basically Americas idealised image of itself leading the world, and the aliens...

Kirk was often known to win the day with his "humanity" while spock served as contrast with his cold dispassionate logic.

If you go forward to TNG, Q is fascinated with these humans, and their uniqueness.

Fact is, who is to say other species arent more charming, funnier, wittier, better gamblers, and more courageous than the humans? This ever redeeming human charm, and this special and different exceptionalism is Americas idealised image of itself writ large.

Im not necessarily knocking it, but its a factor in ST.

The idea of american exceptionalism is in a lot of ST, only its translated into human exceptionalism. .
4 of the 5 hero captains are Americans (present day borders), a fair number of the other Human officers too.

:)

Thank you for clarifying...I never thought about it like that...thank you for giving me a different perspective, and, I agree!...

From "Contact"...


"...You're capable of such beautiful dreams and such horrible nightmares..."

Indeed, its a perspective. If you ever study film, theres always different ways of looking at things, usually trading on some degree of merit.

ST as american exceptionalism is space, does have some credence. Look at the cultural context as well. America was in the middle of the cold war. It was an era of hope as well, with generational and technological revolution. So you have the need for both propaganda and also the genuine desire for a hopeful future. I certainly dont think ST was all about propaganda. You have to remember there were substantial counter culture elements in ST. But it did reflect an idealised image of a western and american future.

Two things tho.

1 As much as we can laugh at the idea of exceptionalism in humanity, it is responsible for our success as a species to an extent, vs nature. We arent the strongest or the quickest. We are probably among the more intelligent, but theres evidence even we might not be the smartest ever, if you look at other humanoid cultures that are no longer here. Intellect and the ability to communicate are incredibly strong traits in humanity, vs nature.

Also the idea of humanities exceptionalism is something that exists in religion, to an extent.

So by no means is it just about America.

2 America herself does have some exceptional traits, and exceptionalism as a narrative fits in someways and in others can be laughed at as self delusional. America is quite a different nation and humanity in star trek shares some of those traits.

Of course ST didnt genocide the solar system to build its diverse world on, or enslave the galaxy to build its diverse world on, but the diversity and idealism of america is there in ST. Also the "into the west" exploration thing. "manifest destiny" in space if you like.

You could look at ST in a lot of different ways.

I think, if you are not american, its easy to see it as "the good side of america" and to an extent the west.

Later on, the religious element of our world were indeed explored a bit more, with the bajorans especially and for example in the klingons and the idea of traditional cultural rights.

On screen denoted, we had representatives of every culture in star trek. We literally had a russian, a black lady, and a south east asian roots guy, to go along with our white euro "all american" captain.

And if you look at the connotations of what we are seeing, you could easily look at Spock and the vulcans as Jewish, and the klingons could be claimed by anyone and everyone from black people, to russians, to muslims, to japan with its samurai tradition.

Lastly, one very strong redeeming feature of ST is there are no cultures of peoples without redeeming features. Aliens are explored, and not just charicatured. However much they start of joke worthy, they become flesh through a show that explores them, rather than just stereotyping them.

There are more educated and thoughtful portrayals of earths on screen enemies in star trek, than there is of some of earths most popular religions on some of americas news channels. !. So I tend to think ST is a good show overall, that retains its idealism, but also explores and seeks to understand other cultures, literally fighting only as a last resort. To me, its not a binary show and not bad propaganda like Homeland, Fox news, 90pc of hollywood, or reefer madness.
 
Later on, the religious element of our world were indeed explored a bit more, with the bajorans especially and for example in the klingons and the idea of traditional cultural rights.
Nice little pieces in TOS too, like the episode Bread' with the spread of Christianity among a alien race.

A closer look into Deanna Troi's belief in fate, and if this was a Betazed religion, would have been interesting.

I certainly dont think ST was all about propaganda.
Debatably there was propaganda, Gene Roddenberry said years after TOS was off the air that one of the reasons he created the show was so he could engage in social commentary on then present society behind the mask of science fiction. One example, the prime directive was about American involvement in Vietnam.

"manifest destiny" in space if you like.
Have to admit I never saw this, but only a century after the events on ST: Enterprise Kirk did say that Humanity was on a thousand planets.

:)
 
I think it's rather telling that Quinn (Gerrit Graham's Q) revealed that the Q are not omnipotent and nobody should ever think they are. I see the Q as masters of illusion, like stage magicians.

While Q threw the Enterprise into the path of the Borg I always had the impression that the Borg were coming for the Federation anyway. Q just accelerated the meeting.

Exactly so. That Borg cube was already heading in the general direction of Earth anyway. And as we would later learn from ENT, it was because the cube picked up the signal from "Regeneration".

If Q hadn't done that, the Federation would have been caught completely by surprise, and millions more would have died. As it stands, Q gave the Federation time to prepare. Q didn't kill anyone - the Borg did. Q, in his own way, saved lives, he didn't kill them.

That's why he failed miserably in DS9, because he didn't do anything like that.

Actually, Q failed on DS9 because Sisko beat the crap out of him.

Q thrives when he can get a rise out of somebody, like a schoolyard bully would do. Sisko, OTOH, isn't afraid of Q at all and didn't hesitate to beat him up, so Q wants no part of him.

I'm curious as to how Q would handle Kirk or Archer. Kirk would probably also beat Q up, Archer would just ignore him (or bore him to death with a gazelle speech).
 
I don't think Q ever acted with an intent to cause suffering or harm.
If we're at the zoo, and I throw you into the loin enclosure and you're killed, can I stand smugly to the side and say "oh, it was the loins that killed him."

When Q threw the Enterprise into the path of the Borg, it was Q who killed several Enterprise crewmembers.

:)

LIONS. Not loins. No-one has ever been killed by loins, though they have occasionally had difficulty walking afterward.
 
Yeah, I absolutely want to echo what several other posters have said - namely that Q is not responsible for the deaths of crew members due to the Borg and that the whole incident was intended to warn Picard/the Federation at large about what was out there and ultimately coming for them. The speech at the end of the episode basically confirms that.

Side question about Q, if I may - do you guys think that Q had other "favored" playthings/students/etc in the same vein as Picard? Like, obviously Q is omniscient and omnipotent, do you think he was also tutoring/messing with someone on the other side of the galaxy, Ben Franklin in the 1700s, and Spider-Man, all while messing with Picard, or is Picard unique?
 
Well, there's some race that called him the God of Lies, so he must make a habit of messing with different species.
 
Human exceptionism is almost a trope of any science fiction where humans encounter aliens. It's not limited to or even originated in Star Trek.
 
I think it's rather telling that Quinn (Gerrit Graham's Q) revealed that the Q are not omnipotent and nobody should ever think they are. I see the Q as masters of illusion, like stage magicians.

Interesting that Trelene was doing some of the same types of things Q did, and at first Kirk realizes that he was using the mirror to do them.

Later Trelene returns and this time he says his 'instrumentation was unbreakable', implying he was still using something, but there was no way Kirk could get to it.

So compare this with what Quin implied--that their powers may be some type of advanced technology far beyond human understanding- the Q use some type of advanced device to control space, time and matter with a thought.

But this would make them different than say, the Organians, whose powers seem to come from their very being, due to eons of evolution.

Would that make a difference? Who would be more powerful?


Q thrives when he can get a rise out of somebody, like a schoolyard bully would do. Sisko, OTOH, isn't afraid of Q at all and didn't hesitate to beat him up, so Q wants no part of him.

I'm curious as to how Q would handle Kirk or Archer. Kirk would probably also beat Q up, Archer would just ignore him (or bore him to death with a gazelle speech).

I kind of liked the first few episodes where Q was menacing and constantly threatened the crew and treated them like toys.

He can do anything he wants, there's no one to stop him, and he thinks of other lifeforms as pets or toys to torment or amuse him.

Then Picard through wit or philosophy manages to barely defeat Q and they're off the hook for a moment.

One theme with them is that they're bored because they've done it all. Time travel, matter manipulation etc.

Q is interested in people like Picard because he has a strong, stubborn (sometimes self righteous) mind that challenges him.
 
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Q was taking out his laser pointer so he could watch the humans chase it around the carpet. As long as he was not invested enough in human fate to intervene in situations he didn't create, it does not ruin the show.

In early Star Trek it was certainly the case that aliens were based on a single aspect of the human race and thus it naturally appears they are the 'exceptional' race because anything unique to any race is also unique to them. Though I think later in the 90s era of the series that is toned down a bit, and Q is generally the one to point that out the most. He sees Picard comfortable in his notion of manifest destiny that the entire galaxy will be part of the Federation some day and all problems can be solved with diplomacy. So he throws the ship in front of a problem that can't be solved with diplomacy.

DS9 also challenges the 'Exceptionalism' of humans a bit more, as we see how life is on the other side of the train tracks, far away from human comfort. We see a huge part of the galaxy that has a tyrannical variation of a Federation that can't be won over by diplomacy and casts Starfleet as a 'Humanoids only club'.
 
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2 Given the sheer breadth and potency of Qs magic/superpowers, where would he rank as a Marvel/DC super character? Who actually compares to him in fiction?

I would equate him to the Beyonder in Marvel.

That was my first thought as well. Then I thought of Molecule Man (after meeting Kubik) and Kubik. Kosmos I suppose; any of the "cosmic cube" beings. I would say he's beneath The Living Tribunal in power terms, but even Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet or with the power of the Source is beneath LT.
 
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