In the Federation everyone has an elevated cultural taste?
- Thread starter Wadjda
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In terms of food, Kirk often had just a sandwich with coffee, Sisko ate down home southern.
O'Brien (the "everyday man") didn't come off a snooty, after shift he hung out in a bar and threw darts.
We saw Spock quite easily play rock music in a music session, Riker was into jazz, Uhura sang romance. Only Picard was into classical, and Worf into opera.
O'Brien (the "everyday man") didn't come off a snooty, after shift he hung out in a bar and threw darts.
We saw Spock quite easily play rock music in a music session, Riker was into jazz, Uhura sang romance. Only Picard was into classical, and Worf into opera.
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Life in the 24th century was probably a bit different from life in the 20th or early 21st century. Many of the things we know about had probably been lost or forgotten by then, probably destroyed in the devastating wars that wracked the Earth.
So, life had to be reconstructed, from the ground on up. Therefore, the culture of the 24th century was probably more constricted in its horizons--in terms of historical, shared memories and behavior patterns--than we are now. The people living then would probably have more in common than most people now have.
So, life had to be reconstructed, from the ground on up. Therefore, the culture of the 24th century was probably more constricted in its horizons--in terms of historical, shared memories and behavior patterns--than we are now. The people living then would probably have more in common than most people now have.
It does sometimes seem as though everyone in the 24th century is only into Shakespeare, Gilbert and Sullivan, and so on. But, on closer examination, that's not the case.
I mean, look at their holodeck fantasies. Picard's into hard-boiled detective stories based on a series of old novels. Bashir's into to swinging spy adventures. Troi likes westerns. And I seem to recall a reference to B'Elanna enjoying a Klingon romance novel: Warrior Women at the River of Blood.
Rock and roll seemed oddly absent (until the Beastie Boys in the reboot), but it's not all high culture all the time.
I mean, look at their holodeck fantasies. Picard's into hard-boiled detective stories based on a series of old novels. Bashir's into to swinging spy adventures. Troi likes westerns. And I seem to recall a reference to B'Elanna enjoying a Klingon romance novel: Warrior Women at the River of Blood.
Rock and roll seemed oddly absent (until the Beastie Boys in the reboot), but it's not all high culture all the time.
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Our transporter chief certainly appears to be more working class/non commissioned officer but his rank is a bit unclear in TNG as he appears to be an officer. Maybe he got reduced in the ranks at some stage.
AND prune juice. What a snob.and Worf into opera.
Data liked Chamber music and what must have been the nastiest, filthiest Dirty Martini ever...or, more accurately, he seemed to enjoy hating it...
@varek; do you think we really forgot so much in the intervening years?....I never really considered that...interesting notion...
@varek; do you think we really forgot so much in the intervening years?....I never really considered that...interesting notion...
My nickname's the name of an old Heavy Metal band, so I refuse a future where isn't any Rock music, but I prefer to not see any actual band's promotion in Star Trek. So, it's another good point for the Punk song wrote and recorded by STIV staff.
Well, we know he likes the old "Captain Proton" serials . . .
I prefer to think that people are more open minded about music in the future, so instead of seeing classical fans acting snobby toward all pop genres and pop music fans treating classical like tedious pretentious garbage, people see the value of all music and just listen to what they like.
Like, I would guess that Earth education includes music education, so people are exposed to enough different styles and taught enough about technique to have some appreciation for all of them. And some people prefer complicated, heavily orchestrated music you need to deep listen and analyze, and other people prefer more charisma-driven pop music they can just relax to.
Like, I would guess that Earth education includes music education, so people are exposed to enough different styles and taught enough about technique to have some appreciation for all of them. And some people prefer complicated, heavily orchestrated music you need to deep listen and analyze, and other people prefer more charisma-driven pop music they can just relax to.
It's also story-telling shorthand to demonstrate that the people of the Federation are well-educated, etc., and it's easier to use what audiences are today think of "high brow" than trying to include made up 21st-23rd century references.
To Greg's point above, my guess is the lack of rock-and-roll is based on the production not wanting to spend money to buy the rights to anything still under copyright (which covers most of the 20th century), so they mostly used stuff that was in the public domain.
To Greg's point above, my guess is the lack of rock-and-roll is based on the production not wanting to spend money to buy the rights to anything still under copyright (which covers most of the 20th century), so they mostly used stuff that was in the public domain.
I believe there was also the (not unreasonable) thought that it was impossible to tell what sort of contemporary music and entertainment would stand the test of time, so that it was safer to stick with the proven classics. Audiences would accept that Bach and Beethoven would endure, but might balk at the idea of the Beach Boys or Madonna still being popular in the future . . . .
And, yeah, there's the whole public-domain thing.
And, yeah, there's the whole public-domain thing.
Speaking of entertainment, the comedian in The Outrageous Okona shows well why it's not really a good idea to put contemporary reference in Star Trek. I think it would have been very odd if Trelane had been played by Liberace.
You could do a remake of The Outrageous Okona tomorrow and replace that Piscopo guy by Louis CK, it would remain unglorious (and not only because this whole episode is unglorious).
You could do a remake of The Outrageous Okona tomorrow and replace that Piscopo guy by Louis CK, it would remain unglorious (and not only because this whole episode is unglorious).
I think if it were Louie C.K. Data's comedy classes would have been more subversive, the modern equivalent of Joe Piscopo is somebody more like Will Ferrell.
The only hint we get that rock music may be looked down on is in Suddenly Human when Picard walks in on Jono playing his planet's pop music and denounces it as 'Noise'. But then again, Picard is probably not a good example of 24th century tastes. My guess would be that they stop making distinctions between 'High brow' and 'Low brow' music and it's just different kinds of music.
I imagine there being a punk movement on Bajor which is kind of like the 70s UK punk music, only with the Federation instead of the Queen.
The only hint we get that rock music may be looked down on is in Suddenly Human when Picard walks in on Jono playing his planet's pop music and denounces it as 'Noise'. But then again, Picard is probably not a good example of 24th century tastes. My guess would be that they stop making distinctions between 'High brow' and 'Low brow' music and it's just different kinds of music.
I imagine there being a punk movement on Bajor which is kind of like the 70s UK punk music, only with the Federation instead of the Queen.
I don't know, there was always something about human Trek culture that came off stuffy and repressed.
In The Mind's Eye La Forge was alone in a shuttle, traveling to Risa. He starts to get bored, so to pass away the time what does he do? He requests for the computer to play a verbal game.
And this is the game;
Doesn't that seem a bit boring for a computer with 24th century technology? He's supposed to have an advanced computer with tons of memory, speed and graphics technology.
There' no social media? No future version of Youtube? No future version of webpages or blogs to browse?
With all the different cultures and planets there would be tons of videos, people to communicate with or information or news to look at.
And what about video games, movies, live entertainment viewing. (since TV doesn't exist anymore.
)
Early TNG at least, seemed to be saying that the only entertainment people enjoyed were the higher arts-- plays, concerts, playing instruments etc.
And that contemporary things is primitive and obsolete. It did seem like it was trying to live up to an ideal of what the 'higher' cultural ideals were for a future society...
Look at the beverages they drink, and clothes they wear for example....
In The Mind's Eye La Forge was alone in a shuttle, traveling to Risa. He starts to get bored, so to pass away the time what does he do? He requests for the computer to play a verbal game.
And this is the game;
Doesn't that seem a bit boring for a computer with 24th century technology? He's supposed to have an advanced computer with tons of memory, speed and graphics technology.
There' no social media? No future version of Youtube? No future version of webpages or blogs to browse?
With all the different cultures and planets there would be tons of videos, people to communicate with or information or news to look at.
And what about video games, movies, live entertainment viewing. (since TV doesn't exist anymore.
) Early TNG at least, seemed to be saying that the only entertainment people enjoyed were the higher arts-- plays, concerts, playing instruments etc.
And that contemporary things is primitive and obsolete. It did seem like it was trying to live up to an ideal of what the 'higher' cultural ideals were for a future society...
Look at the beverages they drink, and clothes they wear for example....
There was that bit on Voyager where the Doctor's rebellious teenage "son" embraced Klingon fashions and culture, mostly just to shock his parents.
That seemed very believable . . .
Once the Beach Boys ad Madonna enter the public domain they'll be used of Star Trek like shows.I believe there was also the (not unreasonable) thought that it was impossible to tell what sort of contemporary music and entertainment would stand the test of time, so that it was safer to stick with the proven classics. Audiences would accept that Bach and Beethoven would endure, but might balk at the idea of the Beach Boys or Madonna still being popular in the future . . . .
And, yeah, there's the whole public-domain thing.
