Creationism Banned In U.K. Schools

[Crazy Eddie]

And yet, Christians still expect Jesus to be punished for the sins of all mankind

I'm not sure you've grasped the whole Resurrection thang.

It's not hard to grasp. An angry god supposedly requires a blood sacrifice in order to appease his wrath (after 4000 years he's still angry at Adam for learning about good and evil and has been punishing his descendents ever since). Jesus was supposed to be the final sacrifice to appease that wrath forever and make everything square again. Lore has it that the EFFECT of that sacrifice won't kick in until the very end of the world, though, so.... :shrugs:

 

[Deckerd]

And yet, Christians still expect Jesus to be punished for the sins of all mankind

I'm not sure you've grasped the whole Resurrection thang.

It's not hard to grasp. An angry god supposedly requires a blood sacrifice in order to appease his wrath (after 4000 years he's still angry at Adam for learning about good and evil and has been punishing his descendents ever since). Jesus was supposed to be the final sacrifice to appease that wrath forever and make everything square again. Lore has it that the EFFECT of that sacrifice won't kick in until the very end of the world, though, so.... :shrugs:

Nope I don't think you've really grasped it.

 

[Davros]

There should be no problem with teaching creation stories in school. As long as it is in a mythology of comparative religions class. If mentioned in a science class it should be at that part where the teacher explains what people believed before they had science.

 

[Destructor]

All ideas should be protected even the bad ones because there is no inherent truth only consensus.

This statement deserves a blue ribbon for idiocy. By this "logic" the word 'education' makes no sense and schools should not be a thing.

 

[Timewalker]

It should be as simple as this science is taught in science class, religious beliefs taught in church/religious classes.

And if a child's parent don't take them to church-temple-mosque, and they wish to learn of religion, what better place than the public school they are already attending?

There are these things called "public libraries"...

 

[Armored Saint]

All ideas should be protected even the bad ones because there is no inherent truth only consensus.

This statement deserves a blue ribbon for idiocy. By this "logic" the word 'education' makes no sense and schools should not be a thing.

In fact, this excessive relativism even ivalidates this debate because any arguments has no more value.

Freedom of speech as Constitutionnal right doesn't mean a teacher can tell anything into a classroom and doesn't need to respect the educationnal program.

 

[HIjol]

This topic is stimulating and valuable...faith, or not, is something the whole planet shares...Freedom of Speech in the United States refers to utterance...we may have the right to say what we think, but there is always a consequence...if a teacher in a public school spends time instructing pupils on faith matters outside the curricular areas, it will not take long before that fact is known and remediation will happen, including possible removal...if a Private (Religious) school teacher spends too much time teaching secular topics outside the scope of that institution's Curriculum, that too will be discovered and remediated...

...again, Freedom of Speech comes with consequence...

 

[gturner]

At many US public universities, the students used to attend the university's non-denominational church services on Sundays. Attendance used to be mandatory, and sometimes the sermons were delivered by the dean or university president. The campus chapel is often one of the oldest and prettiest buildings on campus, but some of them have long since been repurposed.

UVA's chapel

Harvard's church

Google images of Duke University's chapel, which is pretty much a cathedral.

 

[HIjol]

At many US public universities, the students used to attend the university's non-denominational church services on Sundays. Attendance used to be mandatory, and sometimes the sermons were delivered by the dean or university president. The campus chapel is often one of the oldest and prettiest buildings on campus, but some of them have long since been repurposed.

UVA's chapel

Harvard's church

Google images of Duke University's chapel, which is pretty much a cathedral.

...beautiful!...same at University of Illinois, way back...such architecture...

 

[gturner]

Speaking of old and beautiful, take a look at Cincinnati's old public library in this Buzzfeed piece.

 

[HIjol]

Speaking of old and beautiful, take a look at Cincinnati's old public library in this Buzzfeed piece.

Wow...The Great Hall and the cast iron stacks are stunning...great post!

 

[gturner]

And they tore it down to build the cookie-cutter blah-era architectural nothingness shown in the first photo. Barbarians...

If that library still stood they'd have filmed big segments of the Harry Potter series in it because it is like something out of a book lover's dreams and fantasies.

I can't imagine how hot the librarians must have been.

 

[HIjol]

And they tore it down to build the cookie-cutter blah-era architectural nothingness shown in the first photo. Barbarians...

If that library still stood they'd have filmed big segments of the Harry Potter series in it because it is like something out of a book lover's dreams and fantasies.

I can't imagine how hot the librarians must have been.

Indeed...and I am both a book lover and a librarian lover!

 

[Drone]

Well, that certainly puts the reconfigured library in Daniels' devastated contemporary timeline, impressive edifice though it may have been, http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x01/shockwave2_072.jpg
http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x01/shockwave2_077.jpg
in the shade.

 

[Drone]

It's already beginning in Genesis. He LIES to his creations about the tree. He said they'd die if they eat from it. That absolutely wasn't the case.

They became mortal, didn't they? And mortals eventually die.Bob

I think it's been said in posts since, but dead in the sense of being dead to Him, at least on a certain level, because they have integrally altered their moral state of being, as He created it, by taking this action.

 

[JarodRussell]

It's already beginning in Genesis. He LIES to his creations about the tree. He said they'd die if they eat from it. That absolutely wasn't the case.

They became mortal, didn't they? And mortals eventually die.Bob

I think it's been said in posts since, but dead in the sense of being dead to Him, at least on a certain level, because they have integrally altered their moral state of being, as He created it, by taking this action.

So God being a smartass basically.

The tree clearly had an effect on humans. They became self aware, aware of their nakedness in the metaphor. God absolutely didn't like that (which is another issue, that part of Genesis is essentially a fable for a tyrant wanting all people below him uneducated and illiterate). And God exiled them before they could eat from the other tree that would give humans eternal life, which would have put them on his own level (the next step of the tyrant metaphor, after the people become educated and literate, they recognize they should be equal).

If it was a test of character, why did he design the tree to have that effect on his test subjects? Why didn't he choose a tree that had no effect at all? One answer is that the trees were beyond his control.

 

[Drone]

Well, in this supposed scenario, although possessing the information to effectively anticipate the outcome, perhaps He simply harbored higher expectations.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Well, in this supposed scenario, although possessing the information to effectively anticipate the outcome, perhaps He simply harbored higher expectations.

When I write a javascript program to pass values to a database, I expect the program to execute the way I programmed it to. If the program doesn't execute properly, it's because I made a mistake, entered a command incorrectly, called an address incorrectly, used the wrong data type, etc.

You know what I don't do? I don't expect the javascript to self-correct some flaw that I deliberately programmed into it. I don't expect the computer to recognize my mistake and correct it on its own. And I CERTAINLY don't make that mistake on purpose in order to test whether or not the database is personally loyal to me and wiling to obey my commands. I don't do these things for a very simple reason: because I am not a lunatic.

The only reason God would need to test Adam's character is if he had no way of knowing Adam's character and no way of controlling it, which means he is not all-knowing and not all-powerful. On the other hand, that opens up the possibility that he didn't mean to test him at all, that he really WAS lying to him and that Adam was expelled for being too smart.

 

[JarodRussell]

I just noticed that humans invented clothing in Genesis. One thing God didn't think of, or didn't expected humans to think of. Either way, humans came up with it by themselves.

I always considered the apple a metaphor for education and, dare I say it, science. God had a monopol on knowledge and eternal life in his self made garden. He is described wandering through the garden for his own amusement. Once humans tasted the apple, they became self aware, educated and - most importantly - developed free will. God became angry when they covered themselves, and he wanted to know who told them that they were naked (still assuming they didn't realize that themselves!). And then, afraid of them also tasting from eternal life, he punished and exiled them.

Not to forget about the snake, which revealed the death threat was a lie. God had no control over the snake. Design flaw? Beyond his powers? A part of the character test (but God punished the snake as well, so that's another vote against that theory)?

It's basically a metaphor for regimes trying to keep you illiterate, and considering you a threat once you become educated, draw your own conclusions, and make up your own opinion.

 

[publiusr]

Everything evolves--even airplanes--recently caught in the act of going ashore for the first time:





Join David Attenborough and I as we watch these rare Pacific Narrow-bodies return to the mountain streams in which they were born, as they try to climb the shore, evolve, spawn and then die. Their passage upstream is fraught with danger, from rapids, waterfalls and hungry grizzly Airbuses.

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=25353