Do Romulans undergo Pon Farr?

[T'Girl]

Well the proto-Romulans departed Vulcan during the Time of Awakening/Sundering. As ludicrous as it would be, maybe Vulcan genetics were affected by the Time of Awakening and thus the logical lifestyle and pon farr didn't come around until after the proto-Romulans left Vulcan.

Or the Romulans and the Vulcans were two separate racial/ethic groups on Vulcan, there was a mountain range or some other profound obstacle keeping them apart for a extended time period.

The Vulcans have the gene for pon farr, the Romulans do not.

IIRC, Spock says something about pon farr being the price Vulcans pay for the repression of their emotions.

I believe that was McCoy.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

My (admittedly unlikely) theory is that Romulans are actually the original species. Vulcans are genetically enhanced, essentially Augments. The Sundering took place because the proto-Vulcans thought genetic enhancement was the logical thing to do and the proto-Romulans disagreed and left. Pon-Farr is a side-effect of their genetic modifications.

 

[Timewalker]

It sure seemed like adolescent Spock in Trek III goes through pon farr purely for biological reasons, as he had no emotion repression training. Of course, you could deny that it was actually pon farr, but that's what it seemed like at the time.

That was such an unnecessary part of the movie and made no sense at all, since we already know Spock's first pon farr didn't happen until he was in his 30s, not his young teens!

Let's remember that some Vulcan characters seem to miss out on pon farr, either explicitly or implicitly (Tuvok vs. the crews of the fully Vulcan-crewed ships). And then let's recall that the chaste 1960s episode "Amok Time" defined pon farr not as the urge to mate, as in madly copulate, but as the urge to find a mate, as in get married. Indeed, apart from that ST3 thing, all known occurrences of pon farr have been resolved without copulation!

It might well be that pon farr is a bachelor-only thing, explaining why it's so extremely unlikely to occur on screen despite Vulcanoid-heavy settings or storylines. When the couple is formed, there's no further mating urge.

This would jibe with Spock's second puberty, too: one time with Saavik was enough, even though Spock clearly matured several seven-year cycles beyond the biological age at which the X-rated finger-rubbing was first shown happening.

Copulation would take place regardless of pon farr, with personal rather than species-specific variation to the frequency and details. But I'd assume Romulans would be a bit more openly passionate about it, and as the result their pon farr would not stand out that much from the rest of their sex life.

(Also, since the Romulans are an Evil Empire, naturally they also force everybody into loveless marriages at an early age so none of the characters we meet is going to have pon farr. )

Timo Saloniemi

What this and the rest of the posts here overlook is the telepathic component of Vulcan biology and culture. Spock and T'Pring were bonded to each other as 7-year-old children, and the way it was supposed to work was that at the proper time (pon farr) they would complete the final rites and consummation - thereby finalizing the whole decades-long process of marriage.

Remember how T'Pau warned Kirk and McCoy that what was going to happen next might disturb them, but it was the Vulcan way? Nobody but T'Pring and Stonn knew that she planned to Challenge, so it's been theorized that what T'Pau meant was that the consummation would have been public (my source for this is one of the essays in Best of Trek; sorry for not recalling which volume).

There's no reason Vulcans can't have sex whenever they want. But every 7 years or so, after they reach full maturity in mind and body, they are compelled to mate.

Indeed, apart from that ST3 thing, all known occurrences of pon farr have been resolved without copulation!

Since I doubt Spock was immaculately conceived, it's safe to assume Sarek has also undergone his share of pon farr throughout his life.

 

[Robert Comsol]

From "The Cloud Minders":

DROXINE: You only take a mate once every seven years?
SPOCK: The seven-year cycle is biologically inherent in all Vulcan’s. At that time, the mating drive outweighs all other motivations.
DROXINE: And is there nothing that can disturb that cycle, Mister Spock?
SPOCK: Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing, madam.

Always sounded to me as if Spock's human half wanted to exploit an opportunity here.

To me that still sounds like Vulcan logic is suppressing the mating drive but after seven years it becomes impossible to keep it under control.

Bob

 

[TheRoyalFamily]

Also, let's not forget that Vulcan females also go through pon far, and that it is explicitly biological, both in cause and effect. I know some of us want to forget ENT, or at least parts of it, but it's still valid. There was that episode where some pathogen or another triggered T'Pol's pon far prematurely, and it was killing her (literally) not to get some action.

 

[Timewalker]

@Robert Comsol: Given how uncomfortable Spock was discussing it with Kirk and McCoy, this was a ridiculous scene.

 

[Nerys Myk]

De canon is de canon. Vat can be done?

 

[Robert Comsol]

^^ Apparently ENT reflected correctly the original "Amok Time":

You humans have no conception. It strips our minds from us. It brings a madness which rips away our veneer of civilisation. It is the pon farr. The time of mating. There are precedents in nature, Captain. The giant eelbirds of Regulus Five, once each eleven years they must return to the caverns where they hatched. On your Earth, the salmon. They must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn or die in trying.

I'd hoped I would be spared this, but the ancient drives are too strong. Eventually, they catch up with us, and we are driven by forces we cannot control to return home and take a wife. Or die.

Given how uncomfortable Spock was discussing it with Kirk and McCoy, this was a ridiculous scene.

I think the real "uncomfortable" element with Kirk and McCoy was Spock's display of erratic behaviour. In the "Cloud Minders" scene he talks about it and makes it sound like one of the most normal things in the world (but omits any references to the erratic behaviour that comes along with it).

It's strange that neither Kirk, McCoy or Chapel have any explanation for Spock's behaviour in "Amok Time". It really looks like they don't know a lot, yet, about Vulcan biology.

Bob

 

[LordMudd]

1. Spock tells Nurse Chapel that T'Pring is his wife. He goes on to explain that a ceremony was performed when they were children.

2. Unlike Spock, T'Pring shows no evidence of Pon Farr, however she does have Stonn.

3. At the end, Spock tells Stonn "Having a thing is not so pleasing after all as wanting a thing. It is not logical, but it is often true."

4. In one of the books, Spock learns that T'Pring was rejecting him even during the aforementioned ceremony, which explained why he felt no link to her.

5. Sybok was also a son of Sarek, implying that polygamy is legal on Vulcan, however, the fact that he rejected logic in favor of emotion may have been an embarrassment to both parents, leading to a divorce.

6. Varik, on Voyager, went through Pon Farr. He tried alleviating it in the Holodeck, but it only came back stronger, implying the need for emotional as well as physical contact. He logically chose the only female physically able to withstand Vulcan mating, B'Elanna.

7. Regarding Spock going through Pon Farr in the movie, we know Vulcans live longer, and therefore probably age slower. How do we know that isn't 30 on Vulcan?

CCC.

 

[Nerys Myk]

7. Regarding Spock going through Pon Farr in the movie, we know Vulcans live longer, and therefore probably age slower. How do we know that isn't 30 on Vulcan?

Because his human mom Amanda isn't really old in Journey to Babel.

 

[Timewalker]

5. Sybok was also a son of Sarek, implying that polygamy is legal on Vulcan, however, the fact that he rejected logic in favor of emotion may have been an embarrassment to both parents, leading to a divorce.

No.

There is NO evidence that Vulcans have polygamous marriages. Sybok's mother was a "Vulcan princess," whatever the hell that means, and Sybok is older than Spock. It's more reasonable to assume Sarek and Sybok's mother are divorced, or maybe she's dead.

Of course there's a lot of inconsistent crap about this movie anyway, so I prefer to forget it ever existed.

 

[Kevman7987]

I wonder if Vulcans are able to "soften" Pon Farr by copulating with another sapient being regularly? If two Vulcans are regularly boning, would they be able to push Ponn Farr into being non-life threatening?

 

[borgboy]

I never even considered that Sybok meant that Sarek was a polygamist, that's a pretty huge assumption to make. It seems more likely that Sarek's first marriage ended somehow, thru divorce or her death. I really hate Sybok's whole creation into the series, it's full of awful.
For what it's worth, I remember one of the novels - probably Sarek - reveals that Spock was concieved via artificial insemination, with some genetic tinkering to make the alien DNA combine.
I generally assume that Spock underwent premature pon farr because of the instability of Genesis in STIII.
I don't think T'Pring was going thru pon farr at the same time Spock was. She didn't seem the least bit out of control. Especially if she wasn't properly bonded to Spock, I see no reason why they would cycle together.
Romulans also lack the Vulcan telepathic abilities.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sarek does seem to be a serial monogamist.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder if Vulcans are able to "soften" Pon Farr by copulating with another sapient being regularly? If two Vulcans are regularly boning, would they be able to push Ponn Farr into being non-life threatening?

It would seem that pon farr is easier if a Vulcan is bonded as a child. Since the regenerated Spock in ST III obviously couldn't have been bonded, well we saw what happened to him, and it looked worse than what the 'original' went through in TOS. I think we all know that Spock and Saavik mated in the film - seemed obvious to me, anyway. That would be his only way out, so to speak.

I think a Vulcan has to mate with his or her 'chosen one' to stop it. They can't just have sex with anyone they want - it has to be the one they were bonded to. (Otherwise, VOY's "Blood Fever" would never have happened. Tuvok had to do it with his wife, and only her; and Vorik ritualistically chose a partner first, before trying to mate with her.)

 

[T'Girl]

Also, let's not forget that Vulcan females also go through pon far ... ENT

Vulcan females are referred to experiencing pon farr only in the bizarro mirror universe. In the mirror universe male Vulcans don't get pon farr.

Because it's the mirror universe.

 

[T'Girl]

Sybok's mother was a "Vulcan princess," whatever the hell that means ...

It mean she was one a Vulcan, and two the offspring of a monarch or the spouse of such a offspring.

Pretty obvious by the terminology.

I generally assume that Spock underwent premature pon farr because of the instability of Genesis in STIII.

Good thought.

I don't think T'Pring was going thru pon farr at the same time Spock was. She didn't seem the least bit out of control.

As a pure Vulcan she might simply have been more composed. And remember, Spock was also (for the most part) in control until the challenge was made.

 

[Timewalker]

Sybok's mother was a "Vulcan princess," whatever the hell that means ...

It mean she was one a Vulcan, and two the offspring of a monarch or the spouse of such a offspring.

Pretty obvious by the terminology.

Vulcan is not a monarchy.

It would have made more sense if he'd said "priestess" because we know Vulcan had those.

 

[borgboy]

I'm vaguely assuming that Sybok's mother may have been a descendent of a family that once had hereditary rulers before their political system was overhauled. So there was no official royal family that actually led, but perhaps she still used a formal but outdated and empty title.
I just made that up, but I think it works, but yes, priestess would've made a lot more sense.
It's an interesting idea that a Vulcan's pon farr can only be satisfied with their mate. I'm not sure that that is anything but an opinion though, one legitimate but inconclusive reading of the situation. I'm pretty sure the novels have shown otherwise, particularly with Selar in New Frontier, but then, Selar didn't have a mate. Perhaps things are different for the unmated. I think the Vulcans are likely to only seek out their mate out of cultural inhibitions/conditioning. The telepathic bonding probably does make this a conditioned behavior, but not necessarily a requirement of the Pon Farr in it's own nature, if that makes any sense. The Vulcans have invested a lot of cultural taboos and ritual into the biological state of Pon Farr, so that some of what we see may be caused by psychology and telepathic bonding instead of purely from the natural state of Pon Farr.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sybok's mother was a "Vulcan princess," whatever the hell that means ...

It mean she was one a Vulcan, and two the offspring of a monarch or the spouse of such a offspring.

Pretty obvious by the terminology.

Vulcan is not a monarchy.

It would have made more sense if he'd said "priestess" because we know Vulcan had those.

And when did we find that out? Was there a TOS episode? Some behind the scenes memo? Like most information about Star Trek, we didn't know Vulcan had priestesses until we did. Why is a Vulcan with a religious title more acceptable than one with a royal title? Why would a society dedicated to logic and science have priestesses anyway?