TNG Rewatch: 4x20 "Qpid."

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Trekker4747, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    [​IMG]

    The Enterprise is hosting an archeology conference at which Picard is to be the keynote speaker. Among the archeology specialists attending the conference is Vash, the woman whom Picard built a relationship with while vacationing on Risa (Season 3, "Captain's Holiday.") Picard is initially delighted to have Vash on board but soon Independent Picard and Relationship Picard begin colliding as Vash takes more and more of an interest with Picard's friends and crew.

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    It seems Picard didn't tell much, if anything, to the crew about his time with Vash while on Risa so everyone is quite surprised to see how close they are as they all take a keen interest in her visit. Making Picard increasingly uncomfortable which only seems to annoy Vash.

    On a visit to Vash's quarters to discuss things with her Picard discovers archeology equipment in the room and deduces that she intends to explore the closed-to-outsiders ruins on the planet below and suspects Vash's visit wasn't entirely about reuniting with him.

    Meanwhile, Q has returned to the ship intending to repay the "debt" he owes Picard after the events in last season's "Deja Q" where Picard had saved Q in a show of humanity, rather than let Q die at the ethereal hands of an energy being.

    Between Vash and Q repaying his debt it seems this episodes is about wrapping up dangling plot threads from the previous season.

    Q notices Picard's changed demeanor with Vash on the ship and sees the love Picard holds as a weakness. He elects to show Picard how strong this weakness is in order to repay the debt. To do so he teleports Picard, Vash and the rest of the bridge crew into a fantastical recreation of Sherwood Forest in the stories of Robin Hood.

    Picard, naturally, is cast as Robin Hood (while sporting an awesome Van Dyke beard/mustache combo), Riker as John Little, Data as Friar Tuck, Worf as Will Scarlett and Geordi as Allen-a-Dale. Troi and Crusher are two of the "Merry Men."

    Q casts himself as the Sheriff of Nottingham and informs Picard he's given the fantasy a "life of its own" and he has no control over what's going to happen, doesn't know what's going to happen, cannot stop it and any consequences of Picard's action, or inaction, will be lasting and irreversible. Picard is content to stay in the forest and sit-out the fantasy until the end of it on noon the following day until he learns Vash has been cast as Maid Marian and is set to be be-headed at that time for treason. So he can either do nothing and save himself and crew at the cost of Vash's life or he can risk himself and/or his crew to try and save Vash.

    Meanwhile in Nottingham Castle Vash is trying to adapt to the situation but soon figures out that if she agrees to marry Sir Guy of Gisborne she can save her life. This act intrigues Q and he begins to take a keener interest in Vash, realizing what Picard may see in her.

    Picard opts to try and save Vash on his own, ordering the crew to stay behind, but during his rescue Vash pulls Picard's own sword on him, having deemed his escape plan too risky, this allows Picard to be arrested by Sir Guy. Piquing Q's interest even more until he catches Vash trying to use one of her servants to get a message to the Merry Men/the crew.

    Picard and Vash are set to be beheaded, before the order is given Q gloats that Picard has proven what the weakness of love has done to him. But the rest of the crew are shown to be hiding in the crowd in the castle courtyard and fight breaks out between the guardsmen and the crew. Picard manages to kill Sir Guy and rescue Vash without any loss of life. Q admits the defeat but still points out that things just as easily could have gone poorly. Picard's love is a weakness in him that put the lives of others at risk. Vash counters that the love Picard has brought out his bravery and who he truly is once he realized to be more open about his love for her. Q considers his debt repaid.

    The crew is returned to the ship and in parting Picard learns that Vash and Q have built something of a partnership over their shared duplicitous and untrustworthy personalities and Q intends to show Vash some great archaeological wonders of the universe. As an addendum to the repaid debt Picard makes Q promise to keep Vash safe. Vash and Picard share a kiss before Vash is whisked off to Deep Space Nine in a couple years.

    This isn't altogether a terrible episode. Other than it being cheap (if not out right free due to Public Domain rules) I'm not sure why Robin Hood was chosen to be the fantasy to send everyone into. I guess it works as it easily has a cast of characters to try and mold everyone into but other than Picard as Robin Hood, Q as The Sheriff and Vash as Maid Marian the episode doesn't do much with the premise. It would have been maybe a bit more fun if more of the episode was spent showing the crew cast in these other roles/characters rather than just the "idea" of Geordi being a lute player and Data being a friar.

    Sure, the episode had to set-up where it was going and the premise is hardly worthy of a 2-parter but I really think the episode would have been much improved with more time spent in the Robin Hood fantasy.

    I guess we're lucky Q didn't choose Twilight as a "love story" to put Picard and Vash into. (And yes, yes, Twilight didn't exist when the episode was made but it, theoretically, exists in the literary history of the 24c humanity.)

    The costuming and makeup effects (particularly Stewart's Van Dyke) were pretty good as were, to some degree, the sets and location shoots. Stewart, Jennifer Hetrick and DeLancie all do a good job playing these roles. They may be playing "themselves" (their actual character) but they manage to find the right balance between their TNG character and the Robin Hood character. It somehow works. I'd be interesting in seeing a full Robin Hood adventure with this cast playing the TNG characters playing the Robin Hood characters. Which is why I'm disappointed more time wasn't spent in the Robin Hood fantasy.

    There's a couple of oddities during the final battle, while it makes sense Picard would be somewhat skillful at sword fighting given his interest in fencing, and Worf being adept at sword fighting given his heritage and, hell, even Riker if we want to think about the goofy American Gladiators game he fought against his father in but I'm not sure how Geordi could be a skillful swordsman without getting his ass handed to him. And this is one of those episodes that gives an "odd" moment to the female characters. Where Troi and Crusher, Starfleet Officers who must be trained in *some* kind of self-defense or combat techniques decide to take out two of the sentries by smashing pots on their heads. Even Lucy and Ethel shake their heads at that.

    The episode does have some nice moments in seeing this other side of Picard we didn't get to see very often in the series and it's also nice seeing how it conflicts with him trying to maintain that image of the stolid commander. Seeing his "world's collide" when Vash is on the ship, particularly when she meets Crusher and when Riker tries to pick Vash up in Ten Forward, is also pretty fun and interesting.

    This episode also has some of the best Worf lines/moments per capita in the entire series.

    "Nice legs... For a human." -Worf on checking out Vash as she walks by in Ten-Forward.

    "Sir, I protest. I am not a merry man!" - Worf soon after assessing their situation upon arriving in the Robin Hood fantasy.

    "Sorry." - Worf to Geordi (Allen-a-Dale) after smashing the lute.

    All and all, not *to* terrible of an episode as I may have suggested last week, seeing Vash again is great and Q is always fun. But the episode isn't one I'd put in my top-10, not the bottom-10 either, however. It's a filler episode, mostly.

    Heads up because we're about to head into a string of pretty darn good episodes.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    I like this one. But you could tell the Q stories were running out of creative gas. I think the only ones I really liked after this* was "All Good Things..." and Voyager's "Death Wish".

    *No, I am not a fan of "Tapestry". So sue me! :p
     
  3. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It will come as a surprise to no one on this board that I love this episode! This is Patrick Stewart's Picard doing Errol Flynn's Robin Hood in a wonderful homage to the classic movie. The sword fight between Picard and Sir Guy is a delightful amalgamation of Errol Flynn's Robin Hood and "The Princess Bride" with Picard's line "There's something you should know." In the scene where Robin Hood rescues Maid Marion from the tower you hear the guards outside the door being dispatched just before Picard flings the heavy door aside. "Jean-Luc," Vash sighs as they make their way across the room to each other. In one hand Picard holds his bloodied broadsword while with his free hand he sweeps Vash up into his arms for a passionate kiss. That is just classic swashbuckling taken straight from the golden age of the silver screen!

    [​IMG]

    Just some of the gems from this episode:


    "Vash? How did you get in here?" Picard
    "I came in through the window." Vash


    "Eternity never looked so lovely." Riker
    "Excuse me?" Vash
    "I was referring to the view. Eternity never looked so lovely." Riker
    "You must be Commander Riker." Vash
    "I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage." Riker
    "I didn't mean to interrupt. I believe you were about to tell me that my eyes are as mysterious as the stars." Vash
    "You're a Betazoid." Riker
    "Not at all. It's just that Jean-Luc does very a good imitation of you." Vash


    "I've just been paid a visit by Q." Picard
    "Q? Any idea what he's up to?" Riker
    "He wants to do something nice for me." Picard
    "I'll alert the crew." Riker


    "This human emotion, love, it's a dangerous thing, Picard and obviously you're ill-equipped to handle it. She's found a vulnerablility in you, a vulnerability I've been looking for for years. If I'd known sooner, I would have appeared as a female. Mark my words, Picard, this is your Achilles heel . . ." Q to Picard about Vash


    "You would have me stand idly by as she led you to your destruction?" Q to Picard about Vash
    "Yes!" Picard's emphatic answer.




    "There's something you should know." Picard
    "And what would that be?" Sir Guy
    "I'm not from Nottingham." Picard


    "Nonsense. You're absolutely wrong. It brought out the best in him." Vash to Q
    "His nobility, courage, self-sacrifice. Tenderness." Vash to Picard, intimately.
    "You're good. You're really good." Q to Vash


    "I'm surprised he wasn't too busy gloating over his victory." Picard
    "He was right about one thing, Jean-Luc. As ridiculous as it was, his game did prove you still care." Vash
    Picard slides closer to Vash on the couch gazing into her eyes while tenderly stroking her cheek. "I may not share my feelings with my crew, but I do have them."

    The combination of Picard/Vash and Q is unbeatable. Star Trek at its character driven best!!!

    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  4. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I must protest, I'm not a sparkly vampire!
     
  5. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    :liked:
     
  6. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Trivia:

    Until 2009, Clive Revill was the only actor to appear in both a Star Trek production and a Star Wars movie. He was Guy of Gisbourne in this episode, and the voice of the Emperor in the original version of The Empire Strikes Back.

    In 2009, Deep Roy would be the next actor, appearing in ESB and ROTJ as R2's stunt double, an Ewok, and a member of the Max Rebo band, and later appearing as Keenser in ST'09 and STID.
     
  7. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Qpid was the very first episode of Star Trek I remember watching, and when I was younger I always was waiting for the repeat of the "Robin Hood" episode. For that reason it's a guilty pleasure of mine. Over the years I realize there have been much better episodes, but I would rank this among the top 4 Q episodes of the series, behind All Good Things, Tapestry, and Q Who (I actually like Qpid more than I like Deja Q).
     
  8. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Eh, I think it's hard to rank "Top 4" Q episodes when there's only 7 or so Q episodes in TNG. ;) My least favorite Q episode is probably the first season one with the "vicious animal things" and giving Riker Q-powers. Second would be the 6th? Season one with the Q chick doing an internship on the ship.

    "Qpid" isn't *too* bad upon a real re-watching last night. Like I said I really enjoyed it, I would have enjoyed it more if it was focused more on the Robin Hood fantasy.

    Thinking about it, I guess the Robin Hood setting was used to sort of capitalize, so to speak, on the popularity of Robin Hood at the the time due to the Costner movie.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  9. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Great, now I've that Bryan Adams song stuck in my head. :klingon::klingon:
     
  10. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGoWtY_h4xo[/yt]
     
  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    True. I still rank this one highly of the episodes though, and it was True Q which had the Q intern. Looking forward to revisiting that one on blu ray.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  12. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, and a point about Q. He says If I had known sooner, I would have appeared as a female.. I think they humanized toomuch the Qs after that by making them living in family with Daddy Q, Mommy Q, Little Q and Dog Q. The idea was perfect for Trelane (I know, Trelane is considered as a Q in the extended universe), but the Q should have remained more atypical creatures.
     
  13. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This one was not really a favorite of mine, as Q episodes go. He really was becoming too "familiar", more of, I don't know.. a Dennis the Menace-type character rather than a powerful adversary. If their goal had been to "reform" him over time, based on his interactions with Picard and co., I would have understood.

    It did seem to me that by his last couple of appearances, they were making efforts to bring him back in line with his original characterization, which I appreciated.
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This episode was a fun romp - and without it, would we have had Worf's famous - infamous, rather - "I am not a merry Man?" And whilst Picard has had a handfull of memorable liaisons in this series, Vash was the equation that worked, in my opinion. Q's fascination with her only underscores how truly special she was in the STAR TREK universe. Unfortunately, she ended up getting the Janice Rand treatment, for pretty much the same reasons, and the show just dropped her. It wasn't enough that Riker was there to serve as the resident studd, to effortlessly satisfy every woman's fantasy, but even Picard isn't allowed to have a semi-regular romance. As I understand it though, Vash & Picard were involved off the set, as well. Even engaged. When that didn't work out, perhaps that added to the reasoning, but I doubt that. Actors have a way of getting around such emotional concerns, onscreen, and there have been some famous instances of that. In any case, Vash fit Picard like a Glove ... and the episode "Qpid" is a case in point.
     
  15. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :vulcan::vulcan: I don't see the similarity between Janice Rand and Vash. Rand was supposed to be a regular character as Sulu or Scotty. Her relationship with Kirk would have been something on the long term. In fact, Rand/Kirk is closer to Beverly/Picard than Vash/Picard. The Kirk's Vash would be more somebody like Areel Shaw.

    And I never heard about a sinister behind-the-scene reality about Jennifer Hetrick similar to Grace Lee Whitney's experience.
     
  16. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When I referenced Janice Rand, I just meant in that it was decided that the Captain wasn't going to be "allowed" to have a regular female in his life. I wasn't going for a deeper connection than that, with regards to Vash, even though Hetrick wasn't a regular cast member. Perhaps the comparison was a mild stretch, after all, but if any woman should've been Picard's steady love interest, it should've been Vash.

    TNG just wasn't going to do anything about Crusher and Picard getting together, which I found to be absurd. In my view, with Riker as the in-house studd, there was no need to worry about who Old Man Picard got with, or didn't get with. So let him have a long-term relationship. But, as it was, Picard didn't want Crusher and Vash wasn't going to get many episodes. After that, I can't think of anyone Picard got with who I thought made sense or was a good fit. The imaginary Eline, from the Mind Probe, doesn't count. And having Vash run off with Q instead was kind of interesting, I suppose. But that never went anywhere, either. None of the relationships in TNG ever did.

    I'm surprised that O'Brien's marriage lasted. But Vash ended up serving her purpose, well-enough. She released Picard's inner fantasies and reminded the audience that he wasn't just and old fogey. He could still hook The Hotties and keep them dangling. Now, whether this was because they had a Daddy complex, or they just saw him as a Sugar Daddy, or used him for his Sexual Experience, or his 24th Century French Accent, I really couldn't say. But one thing is for certain - Vash wasn't the first sexy young woman he had. And she wasn't about to be the last, either. She was, however ... the most memorable.
     
  17. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I think Neela Darren was a bit better fit for Picard. She seemed to be a decent merger of both Crusher and Vash.

    Vash brought out a lot in Picard (another problem I sort of had in this episode. It goes along with the "too little Robin Hood" stuff but contrasts it in that we don't get enough Picard/Dax stuff) but it's hard to really see their connection as we're mostly "told" it rather than really shown it. They talk and behave like they're deep friends and lovers when as far as we, the audience knows, they're just two people who met and knocked boots together one weekend. Have they been keeping contact over subspace in the intervening year? It seems like we're missing a LOT of their relationship when she first comes on board.

    But I don't think any lasting relationship between the two could ever happen. Vash's roguish behavior and tendency to get in trouble/engage in slightly illegal behavior I don't think would mix well in the long-term with Picard.

    Neela Darren was a bit fit for Picard.

    Well, besides Crusher.
     
  18. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Neela Darren is a good character and "Lessons" is a fantastic character piece for Picard. The Picard/Darren relationship in Lessons does an excellent job of making the point that having a romantic relationship with someone who is in your direct chain of command is exceedingly difficult. The many pitfalls of such a romantic entanglement between a captain and one of his officers are shown in Picard's romantic relationship with Lieutenant Commander Darren. In my opinion, this episode more than Beverly walking out at the end of "Attached" or the failed marriage and divorce in the alternate timeline of "All Good Things" was the death knell of any canon P/C relationship. The very same pitfalls of fraternization would have happen in a P/C romantic relationship. Picard makes it very clear in the end of the episode 'Lessons' that he personally CAN NOT handle placing his lover in harms way.
    "I've lost people under my command, people who were very dear to me. But never someone I've been in love with." Picard goes on to say, "I knew I could never again put your life in jeopardy."

    In "Lessons" we see Picard flirting and making love to Nella Darren (to the point allowed by network sensors). The chemistry isn't as fiery as it is with Vash, the interplay is a bit more subdued but he is obviously smitten. However, I personally prefer the more impassioned relationship with Vash. "Captain's Holiday" shows a relaxed, off-duty Jean-Luc Picard flirting and making love to Vash (again to the point allowed by network sensors). They have amazing sexual chemistry and sparks fly when they bicker with each other, culminating in the way he bellows at her about the dangers involved in going to Sarthong V. In "Qpid" we see how Picard is prone to taking extreme actions concerning Vash, storming a castle single handily and running Sir Guy through with a broad sword while the two men duel over her. From a purely dramatic stand point (and this is a TV show after all) I find Vash just to be more fun and more interesting than Neela Darren.

    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  19. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Really? I don't know why some fans find this 'absurd' or a big slip-up on the produers part. It was his dead mate's wife. Even if you did feel something for her, you wouldn't act on it.

    I think the Picard/Crusher relationship was struck just right. Mutual affection but an understanding they would never act on it (possible futures, alternate realities and non-canonical novels notwithstanding).
     
  20. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Pretty sure that rule goes out the window when the wife is a hot red-head. ;)